Sorcerer's 11 Mafia - xkcd edition - Game Over

[EGW]

I disagree with Fred, I prefer smaller posts. Walls kill.

[Dooplissity]

@Doopliss:

It defends him because it clarifies it for him if he believes it to be true, and it gives anyone else silly enough to try to attack him 0 fuel regardless of alignment. I didn't have an idea whether if it came from scum!somi or town!somi, I would have liked a progression there to be able to make that determination.

I think we're not going to agree it defends him. Clarifying information isn't defending, and if we both agree attacking him there is silly, then there's no need to defend him.

Myself and Moody were originally coming at it from assuming scum had no daytalk, but now this only makes sense from a sorcerer/wolf perspective or evil / town perspective, which is why I believe it can be regardless of alignment for Somi, because again, the only thing I am seriously concerned about is you not determining his alignment there. (Since you as werewolf or sorcerer would already know his alignment regardless if he was town or werewolf) I think this stagnates the early game as well, you didn't care to progress it at that moment. To answer your question on his alignment, I've seen him be stubborn about things like numbers and quota in previous games, seeing him argue about something he believes in might help me determine his alignment due to previous meta.

I don't think it's reasonable to ask me to sort him there. If it's a joke he's going to say it's a joke regardless of alignment. If it's confusion it's about as likely as either alignment. I guess thinking about it now, a real mixup is less likely to come from the martyr due to being our protection role, but that's not too useful. I'm very unsure why you make the leap from "doesn't immediately determine somi's alignment" = stagnation. I wanted the gamestate to advance so that I could actually sort people with some kind of meaningful basis.

[EGW]

I can give you that it is more of a pseudo-defense. It's hard to explain for me, but the point is you are supporting him by giving him clarification without first having a read on him, and that post wasn't needed at that time. I say that it stagnates the game when you do that because you cut off any opportunity for anyone to attack him, which can help the thread gain content and also have something to read Somi and their attacker by. You coming in to clarify that for him makes it so nothing really happens naturally. Your post was too sudden. However, I am interested what you mean by a meaningful basis, and why it would be better to have that.

[EGW]

I also want to see Adumbrodeus and PJ post.

[heuristically_alone]

I appreciate the reaction.

You just said the same thing with different words. Why do you like it?

I like and appreciate a vote against a scummy post. And in the future may reveal info about either player.

[Makhaira]

are you saying you think my question to heury was attempted buddying? and when you say "him" who are you talking about, me or heury?

a. At the time I thought your suspicion of heury was a secondary reaction not a primary one, but that may be an artifact of reading the posts in author order instead of chronological order.

b. him in this case is Cynical View, a sort of mafia alter ego that reads everything in the most scum originated way possible.

elaborate on point a., starting with what author order is (how the sort works) and how it differed in post order from chrono

im really glad you explained point b. because I would never have understood what you meant lol wow

Unvote; Vote: Doopliss

help me see why concisely if possible

I like and appreciate a vote against a scummy post. And in the future may reveal info about either player.

heury redeemed

I also want to see Adumbrodeus and PJ post.

yap

fredd fine if you just play and post often even if its lazy you dont have to like early claim just give us something to work with

[moody7277]

elaborate on point a., starting with what author order is (how the sort works) and how it differed in post order from chrono

Author order explained in Seven's post here. bessie came up first with being suspicious of heury, and since I always default to her as town, you looked to be glomming on to that goodwill. It turns out that your post I'm citing in this came ~10 hours after hers, but I'm still willing to entertain the possibility that it was an independent idea.

[bessie]

Daily bark-up!

Well, Cynical Vivien says some of these people might've realised this was a joke but decided to ignore it in favour of having a reason to FoS someone, who's liable to be eliminated on D1. That does imply the person is familiar with my meta and if they also happened to have a history of clashing with me on D1 regardless of alignment, well, that'd make the whole thing seem quite credible, wouldn't it

I don’t agree! And I know it’s difficult to to think about anything but me me me, what about the other people that commented on your post like Dooplissity, and how do you feel about EGW’s and moody’s reactions?

also I get to swing my doop around about having written the PMs which is its own reward

This is for you!

awesome.jpg (61.66 KiB) Viewed 26135 times

EGW's annoyance is probably town
vote: bessie taking the scattershot "let's fos a bunch and not vote" is wolfy imo - easier to throw at the wall at see what sticks if one does a light scattering of sus with no vote swaps to justify.

I never participate in RVS! When I vote, it will be serious.

References:
viewtopic.php?p=6955#p6955
https://smashboards.com/threads/apex-le ... t-24146342

fred already saying he isnt motivated and wont be doing analysis feels like scummy pre-johning and makes him a lategame liability

fred if you're gonna just coast all game Id say just replace out now or claim so we can just sort your slot early

Cool! FoS Makhaira.

definitely do not early claim, that hurts the town a lot - even VTs are important in a game this small because pruning down the search space for the PRs is so important to the evil team

Townie post! +1

partially for the same reason it matters at any other moment, which is that it'd just good. it's a near-tautology that thread productivity makes the game easier for us to solve.

Townie thought! +1

As for Bessie, this being a werewolf game, isn't your typical woof/grr scale irrelevant, flavor-wise?

No! There are still three scum in the game, meaning three players with anti-town goals. I will just use the term “scum” instead of my usual term “non-town”, since one of the scum is town, and there are no players with independent win conditions.

I disagree with Fred, I prefer smaller posts. Walls kill.

Noooo! I shall continue to post walls, as I believe my walls are important in sharing my entire thought process.

I also want to see Adumbrodeus and PJ post.

I agree with this post!

[Freddino18]

(Doop side note please combine posts multiposting is one of my biggest pet peeves)

May I ask why? It's generally considered proper etiquette for forum mafia - editing is disallowed and having to break up a wall of text to address what's directed at you sucks.

I come from an almost entirely Forum Games background, where, except for a few notable exceptions, double posting is either disallowed or heavily penalized, so multiposting triggers my "that's illegal" response whenever I see it.

Cool! FoS Makhaira.

No! There are still three scum in the game, meaning three players with anti-town goals. I will just use the term “scum” instead of my usual term “non-town”, since one of the scum is town, and there are no players with independent win conditions.

Don't finger people without permission, that's rude.

Also, I was more saying that woof and grr as words to describe how good or bad someone seems aren't the best type of words for a game where the bad people are doggos too. Have you considered smooth to hairy?

[EGW]

help me see why concisely if possible

#31 feels like a post that is made with a knowledge of alignments. That's the crux of my issue with Doop.

[EGW]

Noooo! I shall continue to post walls, as I believe my walls are important in sharing my entire thought process.

I'm fine when you do it Bessie. I understand your playstyle and time works with walls, and that is fine. I am saying I prefer not everyone do the same because then it becomes hard to read through everything. Also as people have said, multi-posting is required for mafia and therefore is legal so shouldn't be a problem for Fred.

[heuristically_alone]

I don't have an issue with walls. I have an issue with posts where the word to content ratio is horrifying. Haven't ran into that issue with anyone this game, though EGW has come to closest.

[EGW]

I like my posts to convey what I mean in as little words as possible. It makes it easy for others to understand quickly, and hard to twist, which I find to be good for town. Plus, none of my posts so far have been fluff, so there shouldn't be a problem.

[Freddino18]

Speaking of as little words as possible, we haven't heard anything from PJ, there's been a single post from Adum, and Maven has only had three short posts. Can y'all give us your opinions on the day so far?

[somitomi]

definitely do not early claim, that hurts the town a lot - even VTs are important in a game this small because pruning down the search space for the PRs is so important to the evil team

Yeah, that's a bit

I disagree with Fred, I prefer smaller posts. Walls kill.

I like walls better than multiposting, but to each their own

I don’t agree! And I know it’s difficult to to think about anything but me me me, what about the other people that commented on your post like Dooplissity, and how do you feel about EGW’s and moody’s reactions?

While I did take that opportunity to tease you you you, some of that applies to moody's cynical view suggesting I had to be saved as well. Doop's clarification feels like it's coming from a townie place, particularly because I think this is our first game together so they don't know me and could've just assumed I was relatively new to this. At the same time, I can also see where EGW is coming from, me saying it always having been a joke is less credible after that, so if I had to pin this down, I'd say that's a tvt discussion.

[EGW]

I agree with Fred. I want to also emphasize that Adumbrodeus is a strong player, and that it's important that he put down some content or a vote to keep him accountable, along with PJ.

[somitomi]

me saying it always having been a joke is less credible after that, so if I had to pin this down, I'd say that's a tvt discussion.

EBWOP: me saying it's always been a joke is less credible

[somitomi]

Yeah, that's a bit

EBWOP 2: that's a bit concerning

I really shouldn't post before waking up properly

[AdumbroDeus]

My apologies, been a little busy and having some medical issues right now so slipped my mind.

Speaking of which I'm gonna have to declare a v/la from Weds evening to Sunday due to being in a place with very limited Internet access. Going camping specifically.

fred already saying he isnt motivated and wont be doing analysis feels like scummy pre-johning and makes him a lategame liability

fred if you're gonna just coast all game Id say just replace out now or claim so we can just sort your slot early

vote: Makhaira

This reads as an excuse to push a lynch on an easy target masquerading as townie activity. This MIGHT fly with the initial post only, but this late Freddie reads merely noob do saying it's reads as scummy pre-johns looks nasty. Especially with asking for a claim. They read as too sophisticated a player to not know better.

Meanwhile Bessie seems to have dropped it when Freddie's later posts have context.

And Dooplisity telling Fredino not to claim is a very obvious pro-town move.

Unrelatedly:
Heuristically alone was very clearly joking and extended the joke past it's obvious sell-by date, but people digging at it as if there's something serious there seem a bit weird.

Somo seemed to simultaneously be aware and not aware that the setup is open (referencing no n0 kills, then moody having insider info) which strikes me as weird.

EGW, don't like the interaction with droop. Initial question was potentially useful but droop's rationale that they thought the Convo wasnt useful to determining alignments was hoping to move the thread to something more useful is valid rationale and I see no reason to disbelieve droop believed it.

[AdumbroDeus]

I agree with Fred. I want to also emphasize that Adumbrodeus is a strong player, and that it's important that he put down some content or a vote to keep him accountable, along with PJ.

I appreciate the vote of support, but I never really felt like I was a particularly strong player, especially now that I feel super rusty.

[EGW]

EGW, don't like the interaction with droop. Initial question was potentially useful but droop's rationale that they thought the Convo wasnt useful to determining alignments was hoping to move the thread to something more useful is valid rationale and I see no reason to disbelieve droop believed it.

The underlined I think is why I feel this is you being unfair to my slot in terms of, I have not seen an answer to my question on what would be a better meaningful basis yet. I'm going based on what I saw, and what I saw was Doop posting suddenly when it didn't seem like something that could help him determine a read at that moment, and that it also cut off any opportunity for the thread to develop naturally. If you have an answer as well, please feel free to give that after Doop responds.

[EGW]

I appreciate the vote of support, but I never really felt like I was a particularly strong player, especially now that I feel super rusty.

I will give you that you haven't played in a long while to my knowledge, however you are still experienced and I want people to be aware of that and to keep you accountable, since you took a while to get back in thread.

[AdumbroDeus]

EGW, don't like the interaction with droop. Initial question was potentially useful but droop's rationale that they thought the Convo wasnt useful to determining alignments was hoping to move the thread to something more useful is valid rationale and I see no reason to disbelieve droop believed it.

The underlined I think is why I feel this is you being unfair to my slot in terms of, I have not seen an answer to my question on what would be a better meaningful basis yet. I'm going based on what I saw, and what I saw was Doop posting suddenly when it didn't seem like something that could help him determine a read at that moment, and that it also cut off any opportunity for the thread to develop naturally. If you have an answer as well, please feel free to give that after Doop responds.

In the interests of "you might have latched on something I missed and be using this to draw it out", I'll wait on droop's response.

However, as alluded to before I both think droop has explained and that this line of questioning relies on a flaw in your reasoning.

I appreciate the vote of support, but I never really felt like I was a particularly strong player, especially now that I feel super rusty.

I will give you that you haven't played in a long while to my knowledge, however you are still experienced and I want people to be aware of that and to keep you accountable, since you took a while to get back in thread.

Fair.

[AdumbroDeus]

Ebwop: I only implied thought I thought droop's previous answers were a good explanation before, not the flaw in reasoning.

[EGW]

I can, but I'd like to wait for some people to post before I do if that's all right with you.

How about now? Have your reads remained the same or changed at all? I'd like to see you post what you have in mind so far.