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sorry there was a C+P error when i restructured my post to make a bit more sense. the thing about daisy chaining the worst should be in the paragraph starting N2 for context

Why the fuck was Madge wagoned?

It’s WMU and plus or minus seven.

Mass claim should be happening. We have a majority of us claimed. And if Madge dies it’s a scum claim back off.

Both Madge and I are invests:

Elim is WMU / Moody. WMU is most likely as doc claim is bullshit but would compromise on Moody. Seven if scum is traitor with WMU

We are not elimming cop/cop adjacent.

xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:35 pm I can finally play, sorry i was busy in the morning.

@Steven, I have few hours to read and check my opinion on Moody

About Math's tone, I don't like it, he looks like he is in a hurry to push me and wants to attract the others in this push. He is completely disregarding my claim and he wants details after i said details may help the wolves.
I think someone who don't want to reevaluate has big scum equity.

Do you think a full claim is necessary from me?

Yes I do because at this point we have a parity cop claim and myself who both act as clears/guilties.

Whatever flavor of doctor you are/claim to be you should be able to explain your target.

MathBlade wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:05 am Why the fuck was Madge wagoned?

It’s WMU and plus or minus seven.

Mass claim should be happening. We have a majority of us claimed. And if Madge dies it’s a scum claim back off.

Both Madge and I are invests:

Elim is WMU / Moody. WMU is most likely as doc claim is bullshit but would compromise on Moody. Seven if scum is traitor with WMU

We are not elimming cop/cop adjacent.

Lol

@Madge one of those reactions from you was before the second claim for the record. Marklin claimed, you made a post discussing how his role could be confirmed, I pointed out that his ability isn't useless, then you turned on him.

I think you only have two votes btw. Also your play has been superb.

I'm fine with a massclaim btw. I'm like a tracker person. It's kind of hard to use though so I kind of forked up both nights. It works as so:

If the first person I vote is also the last person I vote, I am told if they visit any people that I have voted between them, or myself during the night. I am just told that they visited one of those people, not the specific person, so just voting the entire player list wouldn't tell me much unless I was just looking to see if the person visited.

If the first person I vote is different from the last person I vote for, I am told if either of them visited one another.

sounds like I was sheeping you, one of my townreads, if i agreed with you after you pointed something out lol but w/e i talked a lot of crap during that whole fiasco

also lol i kind of sucked if i'm getting myself and my lover killed at this point over how i interacted with a shit claim, but like i said i don't think i'm going to change your mind so i look forward to being able to gloat (...over what a shitty player i am i guess lol) when i flip and/or when a town result of some flavour comes on me overnight

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:18 am I'm fine with a massclaim btw. I'm like a tracker person. It's kind of hard to use though so I kind of forked up both nights. It works as so:

If the first person I vote is also the last person I vote, I am told if they visit any people that I have voted between them, or myself during the night. I am just told that they visited one of those people, not the specific person, so just voting the entire player list wouldn't tell me much unless I was just looking to see if the person visited.

If the first person I vote is different from the last person I vote for, I am told if either of them visited one another.

Lmao…you messed it up both nights?

Vote: Seven

You can die

Ya sort of. I meant to be on the worst at the end of day 1 so I could see if he and wisp targeted each other, but I was on wisp so did the first part of the ability. Day 2 I was on the elimination but I was blocked so it didn't matter anyway.

I'm an oracle. I could ask Osie one question about the setup - if it was right, I could ask another. If it was wrong, I lost the ability.

I verified that (paraphrasing) there is a town power with the ability to make all players 'loved' on a certain phase. That was true. Jedi wasn't counter-claimed, so if you want to doubt this find another explanation.

I then verified that there were more than two win conditions. This was false.

Couple of reasons I would have preferred holding this off til d3 but moody kind of botched their own claim if they're town, so here we are.

Given extra kp on flipped scum, I think its pretty unlikely that we have two scumteams with 'matching' but opposed win conditions. We're probably looking for one more scum. That scum is either epically demotivated, or trying to make town do some stupid shit. Don't indulge them.

My humblest request is that we yeet moody, who is not remotely towny by either dayplay or nightplay, let mathblade get or fake one more clear tonight, and then kick the shit out of solving this game tomorrow. If anyone disagrees with this, I implore you explain where there is a better way to get a higher win rate. I can tell I'm playing with experienced players. Philosophical mumblings about wanting to eliminate your #1 scum suspect are beneath you all. Get off your soap boxes, stop doing scum-driven stupid shit, and play to your win condition.

vote: moody


@Seven - you clearly aren't reading most of my posts. Read this one.

That role is cool! How did moody botch his claim?

Duck read, reread, and reread my chain of posts here as much as it takes: viewtopic.php?p=13462#p13462

Madge is without a doubt, the last scum. Your preferred path is entirely unecessary.

So interested to see where Wam falls on this!

@Jedi which direction are you thinking of going?

I read it twice and I'm p sure a mutual friend of mathb's and mine has introduced you to moonlogic. Madge, if scum, also needs to produce clears until she has PoE'd herself. There's one thing in particular which you aren't seeing that I won't be explaining before d4.

With one fewer distraction (moody is a low energy lurker who makes perfect sense as scum), there's a solve which I'd posit in F6 (5:1 or, worst case scenario, 4:2). This solve is made a lot easier if we take the path:

Yeet moody
Math blocks wam or anyone who isn't madge or wmu but declares who it is before night (for the clear, if math dies)
Wmu does as wmu does
I'll confer with madge on her targets tonight

If y'all aren't satisfied with my proposed solve tmo I think you're duty bound to elim me/madge for the double flip. The fact I need one more night phase doesn't mean y'all should start picking up what scum are puttin down.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 2:57 am That role is cool! How did moody botch his claim?

Will also answer this d4 but again, I'm surprised this isn't something you're seeing.

It's just unecessary. We don't need to milk every last walnut as they say. (That is what they say right?)

Believe me I get where you're coming, but I also think your desire for a mechanical lock and your lover status is blinding you from making reads. Your play would make sense if we didn't have a strong lead, but we do. We don't need to kill moody to see what happens in the night when we can just eliminate scum.

@worst That is a pretty cool role

@seven Kinda thinking moody rn, I'll wait until closer to EOD before putting in my vote though, hopefully I can see what the neighbor thinks by then

the worst wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:06 am I read it twice and I'm p sure a mutual friend of mathb's and mine has introduced you to moonlogic. Madge, if scum, also needs to produce clears until she has PoE'd herself. There's one thing in particular which you aren't seeing that I won't be explaining before d4.

Vote: Moody

Quack. Will compromise with the quackiest and block in WMU/Seven.

And nah the more Seven tries expanding the PoE the more I am just like we can elim there. I don’t buy messing it up twice.

Moody neighbored you n1. Crumbed it d2. Your chat lasts until n2 where you decided to become lovers. I'm not seeing the issue other than the fact that he outted you as lovers?

I've been vibin with madge for the better part of two weeks and if she's the last scum I'll sincerely be surprised. Her read turnaround on Märklin in real-time was pretty sick, and what you're seeing itt is a slightly delayed/muted version of what we've jammed about in the pt.

I'm telling you upfront: if youre town and we're in 1:7, your solve is significantly less likely than random to be right. You've cleared WMU for having a single associative with flipped scum, when I'd posit that WMU is experienced as hell and is very smart and would not let herself carry if she DIDN'T have some kind of associative tell. This whole game is firmly within her scum range.

The amount of WIM madge has vs. the amount of WIM moody and even wam have is like, non comparable. If you operate under the assumption madge is scum then she's consistently solved through the entire game, pocketed nobody except for bessie (who she then shot?) and me (who has exhibited nearly zero clout), and let everyone else in the game leave her in PoE. She's then bussed both of her teammates (allowing you'll need to go take my word for her trajectory on Märklin), putting herself in an endgame with one pocketed player who is also her neighbour/lover who is really, really obviously a viable pocket in the event she's scum.

She's then come into this phase which she's almost certain to lose with exactly the same energy which she put into the rest of the game.

Sorry but no. Ive put plenty of time into sorting madge, and she ain't it. If I'm epically wrong, then the mechsolve I'm outlining literally leads to scum!madge guiltying herself.

If I thought I was putting too much effort into this and was likely to be wrong, I'd have done that ages ago. I'm cognisant of my biases and I think my bias is fairly well checked. If you'd kindly address your predispositions towards not eliminating WMU/moody, we might actually solve this game.

acutely aware that moody is a compromise elim btw. I just think moody is really wolfy and am flabbergasted that this has opposition. If I'm blinded by anything its by folks not seeing this!!

Bro, Madge was trying to get wam to disregard town concencus on marklin and shoot Jedi instead!

WMU participated in both scum eliminations! Madge participated in neither! She only fosed Sabrar she never voted him. Likewise she only sought townie points for the Marklin wagon *after" he was the decided elim.

Anyway, I leave the rest to Wam. We'll win regardless. My path is just shorter.

dont bro me fam what I'm hearing from you is that WMU is town because WMU is highly likely to have bussed both flipped scum. scum who are doomed to solo don't let themselves get into a position where they were non-participants in both wagons. esp. when as I understand it Sabrar has a pretty good scumgame. youre looking for bussers here, not eliminating non-bussers who can shrink the poe. you're scum-siding.

Seven wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 3:30 am Anyway, I leave the rest to Wam. We'll win regardless. My path is just shorter.

your path leads through the dark part of the woods tho. full of wolves and bears and assumptions.