Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Morgan]

I'm sleepy and probably won't be around at the deadline, but I think we can safely off Wisp.

Vote: Wisp

Welcome.

Bad entrance, even if you’re right.

How serious is the bottom half of this post, given ur read of me?
I think the entrance is bad, because I am town lol
on a more serious note, if that vote is serious, Seven is probably a wolf

It’s bad independent of you. My thoughts on your alignment aren’t relevant here.

[osieorb18]

If players are interested in a 24 hour extension to the day phase, please message me as such in private.

[Seven]

Welcome Seven, thank you for replacing!

You're town this time I see. There was no exclamation last time.

Why can we safely off Wisp?

Yes, as in we won't be hitting town there.

i have a few things I'm super curious about but most interesting by far is why is Jedi town for u?

He could be scum, there's no way to tell. This is standard Jedi play and pressure isn't going to change it. I'm surprised none of the xkcd players have pointed this out.

Catching up now.

[Morgan]

I hope you’ll have specific things to say about these xkcd players who should know better.

[Seven]

I hope you’ll have specific things to say about these xkcd players who should know better.

Are you this person? https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/members/poison.311/

[Morgan]

I don’t know, I’d have to log in to check and I don’t remember my password. Who is it?

[Seven]

On Playstyles

Information before analysis posts like Suzaku's and Moody's are common in the xkcd meta. There's nothing alignment indicative about that aspect. Yes, moody was mafia in Halloween, but he does those sort of lists regardless. Here are all the games we have archived from the old site.

Here is Suzaku's opening post in the recent Halloween game. Interesting that Wisp didn't site this post after looking at that game. In fact, I think it's the lack of IIoA here that is notable.



On Wisp

Reason 1

also since we bessie asked about playstyle, and since they also clarified their availability, I will do so to

Unecessary justification that comes from scum feeling the need to explain their every action.

Reason 2

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

maybe lvl 0 is mean, but I think both of you think those posts say more than they actually do, when they don't
in terms of Moody, I don't even understand the relevance of the numbers

bessie: post welcoming new players with info, asks Madge for reads. +3
Madge: self-deprecating, hates daychat, bessie is bessie. +3
How is welcoming new players with info anything but NAI? what is the context in terms of asking Madge for reads, that differentiates it from a wolf doing the same thing? Why is self-deprecating something to not here? Hating day chat might be townie? Bessie is bessie means nothing to me

Zeniba: no info yet. 0
Why even bother talking about this player?


wisp: denies worst's poke about him being scum, "not going to attempt to move us forward" comment intrigues Cynical View, lot of filler, not looking for teams (except that's only valid when scum has night chat only). -2
Describe filler to me? since talking about things that happened with adding stuff like, "comment intrigues Cynical", with 0 thought on what that means in terms of anything. And no, if you focus on group scum day 1, you only hurt your reads, focusing on the individual level is so much better

SuperJedi: no RV, other bona fides. 0
what does this mean?

Suzaku: RV on his killer from last game, sort of reads list, discussion of posting levels. +1 (although Cynical View thinks it should be 0)
their read list, is just as weak as yours, like they mention Sabrar, and talk about how they agree that X is x isn't necessarily filler, but comments on Sabrar's hate of it, I just feel like the thoughts lack any bit of consistency, like you don't talk about agreeing that x is x isn't filler, while simply noted, "Sabrar hates filler"

And here we have culture clash number 1, some people's reads lists are going to look like a summary plus a judgement after,
lets argue that is the case, which maybe it is for one or both you, it doesn't make either of yours or suzaku's post mean anything

you do this a lot, you talk about things, and say things but don't say what they mean, you just repeat stuff that happened in the thread

Conclusion: there is 0 consistency in regards to anything stated here, numbers are superficial, and talking about a player that hasn't posted is just never +town ev

Suzaku talking about the two 1 or 0 posters, w/e u want to pretend they are still are or were at the time, again just isn't a townie mindset.

like it's not even good PBAP, its just information over-analysis, its by definition filler, you are just saying words, and not progressing anything

onto Mechanical stuff:

This game revolves around vote manipulation, it's evident in both the OP of the day phase, and in regards to Suzaku's posts about their vote not registering, I also have my own information, and questions to the mod that explain how he would handle people being unable to be voted, or vote specific player, and that is, he won't count their vote in the VC.

if Osie's other games are any evidence, a 3p exists somewhere, I am saying this for sake of clarifying my thoughts on the setup
I don't think this should be talked about anymore today

@SuperJedi
do you have thoughts

@Zeniba
where are you?

Active lurking. Why on earth go through Moody's entire IIoA post as if they were points. It would have been enough to simply call this IIoA and call it a day.

Vaimes calling out bessie is good, kinda wish he voted there

Another example of active lurking. The bolded is just a bizarre thing to say. He doesn't even think bessie is scum. Like it gives off mad vibes of scum who knows everyone else's alignment and has to think of stuff to say.

Reason 3

I think if I'm going to find wolf!Bessie, I probably don't, and maybe policy her in a few day phases, as gross as that sounds, or I keep an eye on how they handle the game state, and how against the consensus their pushes are, which tends to be a good way to tell if she is being malicious or not

Why would someone lay out how they are going to read someone. It just gives them the chance to adjust their play accordingly. The policy yeet thing is bad as well.

Reason 4

@Vaimes
Yo can we just towncore each other, it will make this game less of a headache if you just lock me in as town and I lock you in, I'm confident enough that you aren't pulling my leg with the content u produced so far

If you don't want to lock me as town, then that's fine, I'm still putting you in my towncore, I think from a meta standpoint, you aren't a wolf

I wouldn't argue that vaimes is polarized? I just think I can pull things out that I like, based on my many many experiences with him. And I think he is focusing on a lot of things, which doesn't really fall under what I typically expect wolf!vaimes to do

Vaimes does have a poor track record with mislynching me, but i won't bring up dead horses, it's in the past honestly

Sure, Wisp, I’ll townread you.

@Vaimes
I was like half serious with that post, I stand by my arguments but im not towncoring anyone yet
on reread I think Bessie had a very good callout against mathblade
do u still think they were defending Suzaku? because I don't anymore

except maybe Morgan, for being ok with his vote on me, even tho Morgan thinks I'm townie

I just don't know if wolf!Seven plays trying to force group scum. I think Seven is found by how malicious his pushes are as the game goes on, and the problem is, I hate his PoE outside Morgan.

Wisp has been wishy-washy with Morgan. He goes from town core, to half-joking about being in the town core, to thinking he's worthy of being in the PoE.

[Wisp]

@Seven
Morgan is Lagoon, on MC
Not poison

Also nice case, but I'm still town lol
And even when I was a wolf, I pulled you out of it very easily, so idk why u even are bothering

[Seven]

On Sabrar

It's not the fact that someone is posting fluff that's suspicious. I find nothing wrong with that. It's the fact that it's coming from Sabrar. Particularly because he made this post:

my only read, bessie, is that bessie is beding vrey bessie so null

Madge is madge and Bessie is bessie.

Could we please not do these types of 'reads'? They are unhelpful and basically filler.

So posting this right after shows an inconsistent mindset, and makes me think he doesn't actually care about the filler as he was trying to portray:

I broke one of mine a week ago and it was annoying as hell so I can sympathize.

I also dislike that Sabrar didn't address the filler point by bessie and instead posted this:

I love snarky!bessie, I think I'm gonna sheep her.

Unvote

It comes off as deflection.

bessie: asks good questions and interacts with multiple players but that is standard for her and therefore NAI (maybe she would earn half a point on moody's scale, I don't know). However early aggression (or snarkyness or whatever you want to call it) is in my opinion more often coming from town as scum generally wants to avoid getting into fights before knowing the mood of the room. If scum!bessie wanted to replicate this to conform to her meta as a tunneler then I think she would have directed it at a target different from Wisp because she knows he will push back. Because of this I have a town-lean on her.

She played with snark in her last game as scum. How is this different? Additionally, how is it different from Apex?

MathBlade: I like his push on Suzaku even if I think the premise was false. I don't like this post:

Hmmm I don’t like the Bessie wagon given it seems to rely on Suzaku scum and Suzaku isn’t flipped so we don’t know if the premise is true.

1. I didn't get the impression that the wagon on bessie relied on scum!Suzaku
2. But if it really did then he should be comfortable with the wagon given that he is voting Suzaku already so from his pov the premise is likely to be true.
This overall feels like backtracking to me. If MathBlade ever flips scum we should take a closer look at bessie because this could be an early defense of a scummate.
I don't like the 'thought experiment'. If you felt the need to correct yourself about noone voting Suzaku, why did you leave in the hyperbole of everyone townreading you?
These items ping me to a degree where I have a scum-lean on MathBlade.

The bolded here doesn't feel right, especially given your bessie town read. It seems too premature.

[Wisp]

Ur right I didn't look at everyone in Halloween, but imagine thinking that post is anywhere close to the same post, that was made this game

[Seven]

Ur right I didn't look at everyone in Halloween, but imagine thinking that post is anywhere close to the same post, that was made this game

Click the spoiler.

[Wisp]

Sounds like a you problem

[moody7277]

That vote of SuperJedi by Sabrar already had me feeling a little queasy about him, which is not easy to do given my usual mindset on him, but Seven is bringing up some interesting data. If by some chance Jedi does flip scum if eliminated, I would be a lot more hostile about Sabrar. Not setting it in stone as a syllogism yet.

[Wisp]

So u think Sabrar just busses his partner because?
Honestly it's not even snark that makes Bessie look good, but I've only seen their wolf game and it had a lot of snark/aggressive bounce backs, I like her overall tone, which is drastically different then both wolf games I've seen, and their thoughts/questions are way more fluid.

[Wisp]

I can argue sure that, that read from Sabrar is possibly TMI? And tonally he seems off from when I played with them on smash boards. In the smash cards game he didn't seem to have a direction outside defending a certain someone to death. But here is is actively trying to push thoughts, so /shrug

[Wisp]

Still think Moody is a wolf

[moody7277]

So u think Sabrar just busses his partner because?

Is it your opinion that I am positing a Sabrar-Jedi scum team? Because I can tell you that is not what I am thinking at all. I still think there is an even chance they could both be town.

[Wisp]

No my opinion is not that you are just straight of proposing a sabrar-jedi scum team, it was literally a question, that u just willfully did not answer lmao

[moody7277]

Saying that I'm not thinking there's a Sabrar-Jedi scumteam is not answering a question about whether I think Sabrar was bussing Jedi? The Jedi wagon can get along just fine without me, I am really liking where my vote is currently.

[Wisp]

Y'all wild lol

[MathBlade]

Welcome Seven!

So ideally these next few players should have posted more...

patzer: nothing to report here, a single post with 'content' but it only contains a neutral read and some 'more later'-s. At least she's aware that she should be contributing more, but this is still lurking.

SuperJedi: first 4 posts have no content. 5th is terrible as already expressed by others. 6th at least has some opinions and there is a vote (and a t-s list after prodding) but we do not know any of the reasons behind. There seems to be no motivation to interact or drive the game forward. Active lurker and scum-lean.

Suzaku: I have no issues with his recap/read-list, that's a personal preference that a few players like to do. His explanation to Wisp looks natural. Unfortunately he hasn't posted ever since, can't even call him a lurker at this point. On the townier side of neutral if I'm forced to choose.

the worst: they are jumping around with their notes without any explanation, which I feel is coming from town more often then not as scum is usually self-aware of needing to provide justifications. I like their questions to others though they don't seem to have any follow-ups. Overall impression is good but they might be trying to replicate a known townie-meta.

@Wisp, MathBlade: what are your takes on the worst?

wam: I believe there was only a single game ever when I've read wam correctly, to disastrous results (WoT3). His content is subdued which actually makes me think he's town as he usually puts in more effort as scum.

@wam: why did you answer a question that was not addressed to you?

Definitely in my PoE I don’t like how the quackiest player disappeared after a sus.

[MathBlade]

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

Suzaku (3/8) - MathBlade, the worst, SuperJedi224
SuperJedi224 (3/8) - Morgan, Wam, madge
Wisp (1/8) - moody7277, Seven
moody7277 (1/8) - Suzaku

Not Voting (4): bessie, patzer, Sabrar, Wisp

Elimination Deadline is 10 AM PST on November 22nd.

Suzaku is V/LA through Tuesday.

Activity Check 1.3

Wisp - 18
Morgan - 6
SuperJedi224 - 2
moody7277 - 3
madge - 4
Sabrar - 3
MathBlade - 7
bessie - 1
Wam - 1

Third 24 hours Cutoff

patzer has been prodded.

unvote
I don’t like my wagon is mostly scumreads.

vote: Jedi

[MathBlade]

vote: SuperJedi224

Choice wagon!

Ewww

I have feelings. Like SvS?

[MathBlade]

I hope you’ll have specific things to say about these xkcd players who should know better.

Are you this person? https://www.mafiacolosseum.com/members/poison.311/

Page 8 is disgusting and feels slimy af.

This is also bad don’t do this.

[Wisp]

Seven is probably town
Add that with Bessie, but I'm way more confident that Bessie is town than Seven

I will probably drop a lean list before EoD, or tonight after I get out