Pick Your Poison Mafia (Day 2)

[Wam]

For iso just use the button un the thread, at the bottom of the page, above the page numbers and sort alphabetically. That's my tactic and it ensures no spoilers.

[JC_DADDY25]

That separates the threads alphabetically?

[EGW]

Votecount 1.3

1. Boomfrog
2. Wam
3. Swiss
4. Mak
5. Fred
6. Madge
7. Seven: JC
8. moody
9. JC: Wam
10. Fonti
11. bessie: Swiss
12. Sabrar

Not voting:
Boomfrog, Mak, Fred, Madge, Seven, Moody, Fonti, Bessie, Sabrar

Important Links:
Game links and Vote Counts

Notes:
N/A

With 12 players, it takes 7 votes to eliminate.
The deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday 6th, at 11:59PM EST

[Wam]

That separates the threads alphabetically?

It lists all the posts in this tread only alphabetically by poster.

[fontisian]

Hey FF, why did you go after me for conceding to rolecop and not one of the people who actually voted for it?

uhhhhh I didn't hello?

I went after you for pushing janitor, you know know better

Ok, I'm done with role theory.

Vote Janitor
Vote Vengeful

Rolecop/Vengeful is fine.

Let's play some fucking mafia.

gonna need this powerwolf to explain to me how town!fonti believes janitor isnt that bad to deal or at minimum how janitor is less harmful to town prospects than rolecop

still waiting on the explanation btw

Oh, lol, I misread that.

I've explained it a lot already. I'm phone posting and don't want to go looking. Please iso me instead.

[fontisian]

Ye. Especially if we give them vengeful or godfather, letting them know which of them is the most scumread before they choose who the roles go to would be unwise.

Sorry, should have said something earlier

why did you not include janitor in this list?

Because it's most relevant for Vengeful and godfather, and there were voteson both. It's obviously relevant for all scum roles.

Why were the roles you wanted to give scum the same as the ones you'd want for counterplay as scum?

[Seven]

No. It's personal and doesn't reflect well on me.

Please explain. I genuinely have no idea what I’ve done.

[moody7277]

The way you ISO people in the thread is by using the sort by author function at the bottom of the page.

[Sabrar]

Sabrar not casting a single vote in the role voting phase really, really bothers me, scumlean tbh

Here we go again. I know it's not a popular opinion but I have explained multiple times in the past that the act of voting is not relevant until the last phase of a day. So you can be the tenth person to explain to me why it is scummy if I wait with my vote and not give an opportunity for people to hammer early.

Please explain. I genuinely have no idea what I’ve done.

Watching HaiLOWEEN from the sidelines reinforced my belief that your play is disruptive to Town.

[bessie]

Weekend woof!

How does anyone town aligned think giving scum day rolecop is a good idea like hello?????

I gave my reason when I voted. I believe it is a valid reason.

For mafia perks, I think the Day Rolecop, because I don’t think it will be all that useful. I’m expecting at least one of the power roles to claim early no matter how hard I protest.

bessie: bessie has time during the weekend so she would have definitely been aware of the roles and rules. She was apparently unaware how Janitor worked and also thought Town gets only 2 PR-s. Both items are extreme cases of the above where you don't just appear to have forgotten something or made a small mistake in your calculations but showcase a general lack of understanding/ignorance. With all due respect to bessie I don't think this is something that would occur to her and it is also unlikely that a scumbuddy would suggest it to her.

sad bessie.PNG (86.85 KiB) Viewed 195838 times

@bessie: just one question, you seriously haven't considered the potential of Cop + Doc together? That combination would undermine your reasoning to select them as Cop is likely to get enough results to be useful.

Yes I have. For the Doctor to protect the Cop, the cop would need to claim which I’m sure will happen early anyway especially if it is Madge. This gives mafia a better chance of hitting the Doctor with a kill, role cop, or block. The Cop won’t be useful until they have at least two, maybe three results to make an educated guess at their sanity. Or they will need to have investigated a flipped player. I just don’t see how this role is all that great is a small game. And it’s also relative as I would prefer to have any of the other three roles.

I actually forgot that the roles (Cop, Mason, Godfather) weren't in their typical form until we started playing. The only one I remembered clearly was Janitor as it's the role I had.

I am skeptical of this claim as your D0 discussion implies otherwise. However, I checked the linked game, and the wording is identical.

To start off, the last time I played this, there was this legendary scum player that plotted out at pre-game almost everything that was to happen. They gave town Weak Doctor and Vigilante, identified who was who based on Day 0 discussion, and manipulated a situation where three townies were killed N1, and endgamed with a misyeet Day 2. I don't think I've ever seen such masterful scum play before or after. Just overall brilliant.

Yes. I thought so.

I already am suspicious of a couple of individuals due to their picks and reasoning, but am waiting to hear from everyone before I start asking those people questions. I don't really have anything else to say so early in the day.

Waiting to give opinions until others give theirs. FoS.

vote Bessie

I recognise I have not responded to your points back to me

Awesome! Reasons?

Say why anyway

Interesting. You demand Sabrar’s reasoning but have not given your own. FoS.

Actually, who is using the GoJoe thread in this game?

I know that this will be counterintuitive for players new to this forum, but using the Goejoe thread is NAI (non-alignment indicative). It will be used freely by players of any alignment, mods, and spectators.

That separates the threads alphabetically?

It lists all the posts in this tread only alphabetically by poster.

sort by author.png (15.46 KiB) Viewed 195838 times

[Sabrar]

Yes I have. For the Doctor to protect the Cop, the cop would need to claim which I’m sure will happen early anyway especially if it is Madge. This gives mafia a better chance of hitting the Doctor with a kill, role cop, or block. The Cop won’t be useful until they have at least two, maybe three results to make an educated guess at their sanity. Or they will need to have investigated a flipped player. I just don’t see how this role is all that great is a small game. And it’s also relative as I would prefer to have any of the other three roles.

I disagree with some of these conclusions but it's good to know that you have considered it.

[Seven]

Please explain. I genuinely have no idea what I’ve done.

Watching HaiLOWEEN from the sidelines reinforced my belief that your play is disruptive to Town.

Oh, so you don't like playing with me? I don't think that reflects poorly on you. We all have people that grind our gears. Is my play this game similar to AI in your view?

Sabrar not casting a single vote in the role voting phase really, really bothers me, scumlean tbh

Here we go again. I know it's not a popular opinion but I have explained multiple times in the past that the act of voting is not relevant until the last phase of a day. So you can be the tenth person to explain to me why it is scummy if I wait with my vote and not give an opportunity for people to hammer early.

I agree with this but only in the case where the eliminations only happen in the last phase of the day. In this case, we were deciding roles by majority elimination with an arbitrary deadline. So the expectation that the decisions would be made at the last minute doesn't apply here. Even after it was clear that several people had this perspective (through their stated desire and willingness to wrap up), you abstained from voting. You also abstained after the first role was hammered, which was direct evidence against your belief that only the last phase of the day was relevant.

I actually forgot that the roles (Cop, Mason, Godfather) weren't in their typical form until we started playing. The only one I remembered clearly was Janitor as it's the role I had.

I am skeptical of this claim as your D0 discussion implies otherwise.

To start off, the last time I played this, there was this legendary scum player that plotted out at pre-game almost everything that was to happen. They gave town Weak Doctor and Vigilante, identified who was who based on Day 0 discussion, and manipulated a situation where three townies were killed N1, and endgamed with a misyeet Day 2. I don't think I've ever seen such masterful scum play before or after. Just overall brilliant.

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

Actually, who is using the GoJoe thread in this game?

I know that this will be counterintuitive for players new to this forum, but using the Goejoe thread is NAI (non-alignment indicative). It will be used freely by players of any alignment, mods, and spectators.

It took me a while to parse what JC was saying. He wasn't implying that using the Gojoe thread was alignment indicative. He was asking who used it so he could know which players were safe to search.

I would like to remind people that I am not familiar with all of the abbreviations being used and do not wish to constantly ask what one or the other means.

I resonate with this. Mafia is full of its own lexicon, however, and there's no getting around just learning what terms mean as you go. We've all had to do it and continue to do so as we come across new terms and acronyms from different communities. IIoA = Information Instead of Analysis. It's when a player is simply describing what is happening without interpreting what it implies in terms of motivation or alignment. Let me know if there are any other ones you don't know.

[Sabrar]

Oh, so you don't like playing with me? I don't think that reflects poorly on you. We all have people that grind our gears. Is my play this game similar to AI in your view?

- I don't enjoy playing with you in the sense that I feel it diminishes my winchances. I've clashed with you enough times when we were both town that I would like to avoid it.
- Not similar to AI but disruptive nonetheless.

I agree with this but only in the case where the eliminations only happen in the last phase of the day. In this case, we were deciding roles by majority elimination with an arbitrary deadline. So the expectation that the decisions would be made at the last minute doesn't apply here. Even after it was clear that several people had this perspective (through their stated desire and willingness to wrap up), you abstained from voting. You also abstained after the first role was hammered, which was direct evidence against your belief that only the last phase of the day was relevant.

The deadline was not arbitrary, it was set to Saturday afternoon my time. I was asked to wait with my analyses, I knew in advance that on Friday I would have plenty of time to write them up and vote, leaving plenty of time to discuss with anyone who cared. I didn't expect the first hammer and I especially didn't expect the second one. It baffles me that you would intentionally do it a second time after apologising for the first one. Is the desire of a portion of the players to wrap up more important than utilizing all the time we have available? That would be a first to me.

[moody7277]

JC is acting similar to what I saw him do in AI, so he leans town right now
Mak looks like they're trying to get interactions going with people, but Cynical View is wondering if it's superficial stuff, lean scum
bessie is looking to be in classic form right now, town
Madge still has the strike against her for D0 being friendly to the idea of giving scum Janitor, but I'll wait for more content D1 before judging

Apparently I'm going to have to get a gestalt read on Swiss instead of my usual post-by-post analysis, but he's seeming appropriately inquisitive right now.

Sabrar's interpretation of Seven's gameplay is something I got a mouthful of in AI, so sympathy points there.

[Seven]

Oh, so you don't like playing with me? I don't think that reflects poorly on you. We all have people that grind our gears. Is my play this game similar to AI in your view?

- I don't enjoy playing with you in the sense that I feel it diminishes my winchances. I've clashed with you enough times when we were both town that I would like to avoid it.
- Not similar to AI but disruptive nonetheless.

I agree with this but only in the case where the eliminations only happen in the last phase of the day. In this case, we were deciding roles by majority elimination with an arbitrary deadline. So the expectation that the decisions would be made at the last minute doesn't apply here. Even after it was clear that several people had this perspective (through their stated desire and willingness to wrap up), you abstained from voting. You also abstained after the first role was hammered, which was direct evidence against your belief that only the last phase of the day was relevant.

The deadline was not arbitrary, it was set to Saturday afternoon my time. I was asked to wait with my analyses, I knew in advance that on Friday I would have plenty of time to write them up and vote, leaving plenty of time to discuss with anyone who cared. I didn't expect the first hammer and I especially didn't expect the second one. It baffles me that you would intentionally do it a second time after apologising for the first one. Is the desire of a portion of the players to wrap up more important than utilizing all the time we have available? That would be a first to me.

I see. I think perhaps in the future, it would be best to state your intentions and desire for more time, especially when hammer is approaching. It seemed to me like people were ready to wrap up as no one objected to the sentiment of moving on to the next phase. I had no idea those things were going on inside your head. That being said, I should have double-checked that no one had any unresolved arguments. I'll be more mindful of that going forward.

[bessie]

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

No. But you have 2 1/2 posts where you discuss roles before you made your comment about rereading Godfather. My feeling is that you as a player would have read the roles more carefully before discussing strategy.

Meta points:
I doubt you create the game you intend on running without fully understanding the roles. Your attention to detail and balance as a mod is meticulous and most admirable.
Also, you knew the roles were behind spoilers, so you can’t use the excuse others are using, that they didn’t know the roles were clickable.

[JC_DADDY25]

Very valid point there.

[madge]

Vote: Rolecop

I'm leaning towards the janitor for my other choice tbh. Yeah it sucks to not be sure but there's a 1/3 chance that the first mafia we kill is the janitor and it is moot.

madge plz explain all this plz respond plz

I explained this in a later post on d0, I am not inclined to repeat myself.

I would never give them a cop and a doctor of either stripe, obviously.

were you aware that cop had a 50% chance to be insane when you posted this?

yes, and i honestly don't see the big deal. insane still gives you information, after all. it's not like there's a chance for naive/paranoid. yes i understand it's strictly worse than a known sanity.

---

i will stand by the fact that all the roles suck for scum, there was no "one shot watcher" in their pool, like seriously! day rolecop, extra kill, janitor, it's all scary

sabrar and seven are both in my tentative townpool for this morning.

[Seven]

Could you be specific about where it implies otherwise?

No. But you have 2 1/2 posts where you discuss roles

Abstracting my comments as 2 & 1/2 role-discussion posts is misleading, however, hence why I asked for the specifics. In my first post, the roles I discussed with specificity were Weak Doctor, Vigilante, and Janitor. These three roles were salient in my mind as they were what generated the flash scum win. I did not recall the specific details of the Godfather, as indicated in my second post. I will note that I also wasn't aware that Vengeful provided a second-night kill at this point. I was under the impression that it allowed them an immediate shot upon their elimination. The reason I went to go look at the roles in post #3 is because Mak asked for an explanation of Vengeful. I read it, saw that it was different than I thought, and decided to also read through the other roles.

Side-note: I actually didn't even remember that in the previous game, scum gave out dual doctors and that the second role they received was RB until I went back to browse through the scum chat.

before you made your comment about rereading Godfather. My feeling is that you as a player would have read the roles more carefully before discussing strategy.

Meta points:
I doubt you create the game you intend on running without fully understanding the roles. Your attention to detail and balance as a mod is meticulous and most admirable.
Also, you knew the roles were behind spoilers, so you can’t use the excuse others are using, that they didn’t know the roles were clickable.

I appreciate the compliment! However, these assumptions are based on an overestimation of how much attention I give to things prior to when they need my attention. I didn't make this setup, I just knew that I enjoyed playing it and thought it would be fun to play here. I did the minimal work necessary when making the sign-up thread, and only would have gotten into specific details once it was time to run. Likewise, in my intro post, my priority was to provide what I learned from the previous game before people started getting into discussion too heavily. I hadn't thought too much about the roles that I wanted to give scum yet, hence why I hadn't voted until later when I made my analysis post.

I've previously discussed how I prioritize my attention with LaserGuy here:

@Laser, I cannot express how much multi-tasking is not my thing. My brain just doesn't work the way yours does, I can only have one or two windows open in my mind at the time, everything else is made a background process. I'm busy irl and once bessie flipped, the game seemed pretty much solved to me, so I minimized this game in my mind. When minimized, I just let me thoughts flow as they come and don't really pay attention to details like numbers since I know other people (like yourself) will work it out. I'm sorry that's just a limitation of mine, switching between windows has a higher than normal cost for me than most people I think because I'm oversensitive to stimuli. When in a new window or environment, there is an overwhelming flood of information and I cannot be until all I've organized all of it, hard to explain. But for this reason I have to keep non-priority tasks in the background on skim mode, where even something as small as "counting" escapes my faculties.

[bessie]

https://youtu.be/sRVX9F4fuYU?si=SdURLpp_8ttIE2HT

[Freddino18]

^^ Above post is a video titled "the lady doth protest too much, methinks". Not sure what it's from, but posting this in case it's region locked

My reading comprehension is really suffering today, as I have a massive headache. My two main scums are Wam and bessie (maybe, can't remember at this point) for their role votes. If it wasn't Bessie it was madge. Either way, I want to ask everyone who voted for Janitor and Godfather in both sections their specific reasoning and thought process.

[Sabrar]

Well, the rolecop gives the roleblocker an advantage they didn't have before, in that now they don't have to use it blindly. There is probably 2 or 3 mafia on that vote.

How does the second sentence follow logically from the first? It was not at all assured that scum would get RB as well.

[fontisian]

@Sabrar

I'm sorry for pushing to end d0 early. I didn't realize you were holding back on which roles you were going to vote for.

[Wam]

unvote

I think the response from JC is townish.

[EGW]

Bump.