HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[AdumbroDeus]

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I'll go now, I checked bessie and she has no chat, so it's moody and LaserGuy unless something messed with one of my results.

So, out of them who do you want to go first and why?

What's your thoughts on the possibility that it's a SK instead of a scumteam? Who do you think they would be?");

[LaserGuy]

I'll go now, I checked bessie and she has no chat, so it's moody and LaserGuy unless something messed with one of my results.

You seem weirdly unenthusiastic for thinking you have the solve.

[LaserGuy]

I have nothing to report from the night, btw.

Adum and I did maintain the chat as he alluded to earlier. I can reveal what was discussed if he's okay with it.

[AdumbroDeus]

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I have nothing to report from the night, btw.

Adum and I did maintain the chat as he alluded to earlier. I can reveal what was discussed if he's okay with it.

Yep, it's fine now.

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[LaserGuy]

JC visited Adum

LaserGuy did not visit either Adum or bessie.

I can't help but noticing that you seem to somehow only be able to get results that feel kind of trivial/already known.

[AdumbroDeus]

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My first pick for scum is somitomi his night target was not helpful.

if Somi is scum, assuming a 2 person scumteam, who do you think is their partner?

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[AdumbroDeus]

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Actually @laser, similar question to my question to Bessie.

And @moody, who do you think is scum now, assuming a 2 person scumteam?");

[AdumbroDeus]

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I know you were lurking the forum @Somi, when you get a chance please answer the questions people posed to you.

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[LaserGuy]

Paraphrasing for brevity. I've omitted a few details related to my last ability. I'll claim if it is necessary but I think the ambiguity is probably worthwhile at this point:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Adum: I think it is LYLO. Bessie's N2 result may not be trustworthy due to framer. I thought she was human and moody/mak as other mafia, need to recalibrate. Bessie's ability not likely from killscum, but I want to verify her ability tonight. Moody probably scum.

Laser (after some delay): Agreed we should assume it is LYLO. bessie's ability probably not killing mafia. Might be somitomi? bessie/Glue/somi all have very similar abilities. Maybe each faction has their own type of cop. I was expecting moody/Mak too. Thinking about moody/somi now. How confident are you in JC?

Adum: Not sure any cop powers make sense for killing scum; they care more about PRs. I'm worried about you (Laser) and was wondering if you ignored the chat because you were going to kill me. Confident in JC. Are you okay revealing your power/target?

Laser: Sorry, don't play much on weekends. My power is <redacted>. Not planning on using tonight. If we misyeet I may be able to make a save to keep us in the game.

Adum: I did notice your schedule, usually you drop in once/day. I agree with your plan. Need to think about somi/moody.

Adum: mak is the only member of the humans that Gluelock would be able to use their ability on to actually figure out if they have kills. Cops have guns regardless of if they have NKs and mafia docs don't have guns

Laser: Setup seems designed around giving investigators bad results. Possible framer affects tracker/watcher results, though we haven't seen evidence of that.

Adum: Not sure what you mean by bad results? Agreed framer probably interacts with bessie. Moody's power seems useful for killscum looking for PRs. <your power> and Somi seem weird for it. Worried about bessie's power being fake, but unlikely since she cced Mak.

Laser: I mean bad results in the sense that they aren't giving results that are AI. Moody's power does seem scummy. I think bessie definitely targeted Mak last night. If she is scum, I expect her power is very similar to what she described.

Adum: Odd for her to use it on Mak unless she were confident it was fake. Odd she didn't use it N1, could have used it to clear townies but didn't.

Adum (late close to end of night): I've hinted/crumbed JC's role if I die and you need to figure it out.

[LaserGuy]

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Actually @laser, similar question to my question to Bessie.

I'd say 80% moody, 20% bessie. Tinfoil <1% Adum.

[AdumbroDeus]

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A few clarifications, less for laser, more for the everyone:

Laser: Setup seems designed around giving investigators bad results. Possible framer affects tracker/watcher results, though we haven't seen evidence of that.

Adum: Not sure what you mean by bad results? Agreed framer probably interacts with bessie. Moody's power seems useful for killscum looking for PRs. <your power> and Somi seem weird for it. Worried about bessie's power being fake, but unlikely since she cced Mak.

Laser: I mean bad results in the sense that they aren't giving results that are AI. Moody's power does seem scummy.

We were discussing Gluelock on EGW specifically and I was confused what they meant because we were positive the humans didn't have kills. They clarified it as what people would assume alignment indicative.

I think bessie definitely targeted Mak last night. If she is scum, I expect her power is very similar to what she described.

Adum: Odd for her to use it on Mak unless she were confident it was fake. Odd she didn't use it N1, could have used it to clear townies but didn't.

My comment here was predicated on if Bessie was scum. I also noted that not believing Bessie couldn't use it N1 was part of why I suspected her. I was more suspecting that she lied about not being able to use it N1 and didn't want to clear townies, but it's possible laser misunderstood what I meant.

Adum (late close to end of night): I've hinted/crumbed JC's role if I die and you need to figure it out.

I also clarified the hint was in the game thread and said that I wanted it so late in case laser was scum but had a tinfoil hat theory about one scenario that JC could be scum and wanted them to be able to piece together my thought process for that theory if so.

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[AdumbroDeus]

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Actually @laser, similar question to my question to Bessie.

I'd say 80% moody, 20% bessie. Tinfoil <1% Adum.

This mostly based on associative tells or moody individually being scummy?");

[AdumbroDeus]

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Also, did you figure out what I was referring to laser? This is more out of curiosity than import since JC died last night.");

[LaserGuy]

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Actually @laser, similar question to my question to Bessie.

I'd say 80% moody, 20% bessie. Tinfoil <1% Adum.

This mostly based on associative tells or moody individually being scummy?");

Moody is more on an individual read. There isn't a whole lot connecting moody and somi directly, but neither have a huge amount of content either so there's not a lot of interactions period. He's been very reactive, just kind of following along with whatever is happening. His power makes sense for killing mafia, having him target so many players makes it very easy to disguise a kill.

bessie is probably more an associative read at this point? I had pegged her as human (I'm still kind of baffled at the EGW/bessie interactions) and I'm not wholly convinced her play/powers are consistent with killscum. I feel like I need to do a full reread which I've been trying to avoid. bessie/somi have kind of a weird relationship (namely, bessie tunnels him pretty much every game, regardless of her alignment). I don't think they've ever both been scum together though. Seven had noted she was taking a more hands off approach to him this game and I've been pondering whether she wasn't sure how to act around him because of that. At this point scum basically have to bus at least a little so I'm not putting a huge amount of stock in their present interactions.

My tinfoil on you is mostly a ... 'I'm surprised this player is still alive' read.

[LaserGuy]

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Also, did you figure out what I was referring to laser? This is more out of curiosity than import since JC died last night.");

No, I skimmed through the last couple pages of your content, but didn't see anything that obviously jumped out. I didn't spend too much time on it because I didn't think it was all that important at this point.

Are you claiming anything from last night?

[somitomi]

So, out of them who do you want to go first and why?

What's your thoughts on the possibility that it's a SK instead of a scumteam? Who do you think they would be?");

Feels like the order hardly matters, but I'm inclined to go moody just because we've been gunning for each other for two days now.
Come on, moody, how about a thunderdome?

If we're dealing with a serial killer, paranoia says bessie could be it, deceiving us with her claim like a mastermind. Out of my mafia picks, LaserGuy seems more likely, I'd expect a serial killer to be somewhat involved and to stay in the middle, since flying under the radar could get them elimmed for lurking and then it's game over for them.
I don't think madge would put a serial killer in the game because it'd be pretty hard to pull a win off in a game this big with only one kill per night.

You seem weirdly unenthusiastic for thinking you have the solve.

Well, I am aware that this solve only works from my perspective and at that point I was waiting for bessie to deliver some goods.

ninja'd by some adums, because I type slow and am easily distracted

[AdumbroDeus]

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Also, did you figure out what I was referring to laser? This is more out of curiosity than import since JC died last night.");

No, I skimmed through the last couple pages of your content, but didn't see anything that obviously jumped out. I didn't spend too much time on it because I didn't think it was all that important at this point.

Are you claiming anything from last night?

Want a little more time before doing claiming what my NA was and it's results.

I'll probably claim whether I have anything and results after Bessie responds once more.

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[AdumbroDeus]

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So, out of them who do you want to go first and why?

What's your thoughts on the possibility that it's a SK instead of a scumteam? Who do you think they would be?");

Feels like the order hardly matters, but I'm inclined to go moody just because we've been gunning for each other for two days now.
Come on, moody, how about a thunderdome?

Quoting this for posterity.

If we're dealing with a serial killer, paranoia says bessie could be it, deceiving us with her claim like a mastermind. Out of my mafia picks, LaserGuy seems more likely, I'd expect a serial killer to be somewhat involved and to stay in the middle, since flying under the radar could get them elimmed for lurking and then it's game over for them.
I don't think madge would put a serial killer in the game because it'd be pretty hard to pull a win off in a game this big with only one kill per night.

Do you have any more substantial thoughts for why Bessie might be a SK?

You seem weirdly unenthusiastic for thinking you have the solve.

Well, I am aware that this solve only works from my perspective and at that point I was waiting for bessie to deliver some goods.

ninja'd by some adums, because I type slow and am easily distracted

But you could try to convince people.

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[AdumbroDeus]

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I'd say 80% moody, 20% bessie. Tinfoil <1% Adum.

This mostly based on associative tells or moody individually being scummy?");

Moody is more on an individual read. There isn't a whole lot connecting moody and somi directly, but neither have a huge amount of content either so there's not a lot of interactions period. He's been very reactive, just kind of following along with whatever is happening. His power makes sense for killing mafia, having him target so many players makes it very easy to disguise a kill.

This is approximately how I felt about moody for the last few days actually (though I interpreted the power as also being a good cover for Mak's psychic claim if it was a fake claim, and I really didn't think the JC track made sense unless they thought I was scum with JC (and both of us couldn't be scum except with Somi). I've got some more thoughts but I'll save them for when I claim my results.

bessie is probably more an associative read at this point? I had pegged her as human (I'm still kind of baffled at the EGW/bessie interactions) and I'm not wholly convinced her play/powers are consistent with killscum. I feel like I need to do a full reread which I've been trying to avoid. bessie/somi have kind of a weird relationship (namely, bessie tunnels him pretty much every game, regardless of her alignment). I don't think they've ever both been scum together though. Seven had noted she was taking a more hands off approach to him this game and I've been pondering whether she wasn't sure how to act around him because of that. At this point scum basically have to bus at least a little so I'm not putting a huge amount of stock in their present interactions.

I'm gonna talk a bit more about this after Bessie answers.

My tinfoil on you is mostly a ... 'I'm surprised this player is still alive' read.

Everyone should be asking themselves why I'm still alive actually and this ties into the NK analysis I'm asking Bessie to do.

When I claim I'll give why I think I'm still alive.

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[AdumbroDeus]

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And to clarify, moody did provide a pretty reasonable town motivation if you believe that they didn't make the connection and didn't realize that both Somi and me were claiming NA information that suggested JC was town and they couldn't be scum with both of us otherwise the game would be over already.

But that doesn't change that the action in and of itself provides a lot more value to scum who really want to know what JC's role was.

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[moody7277]

I can't help but noticing that you seem to somehow only be able to get results that feel kind of trivial/already known.

Unfortunately, that's likely due to poor choosing of targets. I seem to have a bad time using powers in a way that leads to a crucial piece of data that leads town to a win.

And @moody, who do you think is scum now, assuming a 2 person scumteam?");

Based on POE, it would have to be somi and LG, but I am more of the opinion there's only one scum left.

Come on, moody, how about a thunderdome?

At this point, that looks like it would be you and LG voting me, me and bessie voting you, and Adum as kingmaker.

[AdumbroDeus]

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And @moody, who do you think is scum now, assuming a 2 person scumteam?");

Based on POE, it would have to be somi and LG, but I am more of the opinion there's only one scum left.

Interesting, why do you think there's only one scum left?

Come on, moody, how about a thunderdome?

At this point, that looks like it would be you and LG voting me, me and bessie voting you, and Adum as kingmaker.

Noting for posterity.

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[moody7277]

Interesting, why do you think there's only one scum left?

We would have started at 8-3-2, and even with the plethora of powers floating around, that seems a little scum heavy to me.

[AdumbroDeus]

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Interesting, why do you think there's only one scum left?

We would have started at 8-3-2, and even with the plethora of powers floating around, that seems a little scum heavy to me.

7-3-2-1, heurie was town compatible but still Indy and didn't really have an incentive to play nice with us.

I'll be honest, based on my read the game does seem a tad unfair (especially with the issues me and laser talked about with a lot of ways powers could mislead.)

Any further thoughts beyond that it seems unfair?

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[bessie]

Woof.

Per my N2 results, either you or moody is scum. Why didn’t you check moody? FoS somitomi.

Like moody, I hadn't quite processed Mak's flip so I thought verifying you (and by extension your results) would be more useful, since you could clear one of us by toDay. At least so I thought since you implied you still had a shot left.
I realise it isn't that useful for us as things stand, although from my point of view it does solve the game by PoE.

What does Mak’s flip, or me having or not having a remaining shot factor in to your reasoning? I’m not following.

Ok, so why last night and not the night before? We already talked about Seven being an odd target.

The big problem with trying to figure out framer targets, at least imo, was mak was so inactive this game.

Ultimately I'm trying to understand how you're thinking about things

You mean why was Seven killed on N3 and not you or JC? Redirection or trying to avoid a power role (doctor, watcher, etc). Or LaserGuy not wanting to talk too much in chat. Seven is a good scum hunter despite his performance in tunneling me all game. Or the killer has a lyncher-type win condition, which if you remember is why I didn’t think we should name claim.

if Somi is scum, assuming a 2 person scumteam, who do you think is their partner?

moody

We were discussing Gluelock on EGW specifically and I was confused what they meant because we were positive the humans didn't have kills. They clarified it as what people would assume alignment indicative.

@Adum and LaserGuy, then what do you think is their win condition and how do they achieve it?

If we're dealing with a serial killer, paranoia says bessie could be it, deceiving us with her claim like a mastermind.

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Going out my husband has a gig but I might be back around 11 pm.