HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[boomfrog]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Very cool format.

Why is Zeniba so high?

[boomfrog]

Hello there.

Let us know about how far you've read in the thread. Feel free to throw in reactions to things even if they are from much farther back in the game. just quote something and say, "I've read up to here so far, but this is interesting because...X "

[LaserGuy]

@LaserGuy, Why did you think Mak thought his town wincon was actually survivor flavored? Even missing the "/s" I don't understand how you made the mistake.

That's what he said? IDK what else to tell you

Of course, when those AIs were identified, their utility function would not be included in the average. There is no worse punishment than that.

Here we are trying to acausally align ourselves and our mod had to go ahead and give us all a pseudo survivor wincon with the threat of existential oblivion upon elim.

My reading of this is 'Oh, here we were supposed to be working together as Town but madge throws something in that makes it sound like it's actually a survivor wincon'.

[Zeniba]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Errors were encountered while processing. The package cannot be authenticated.

Does that mean the image doesn't display for you?

It's basically
Town <------moody---Zeni--Seven--Mak-Glue--Boom--Adum-(JC=Somi=Null)--EGW----heury-bessie-----> Scum

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Very cool format.

Why is Zeniba so high?

[LaserGuy]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Very cool format.

Why is Zeniba so high?

Possibly bad, borderline angleshoot reason, but:

I am dropping out, but will play until a suitable replacement can be found.

I do not have the energy this time around to deal with daily post obligations and my wildly changing schedule. I hope whoever takes this slot is able to kill whoever wrote Javascript pick up where I left off without any undue suspicion from my general lack of posting.

IMHO the bolded part is coming from Town the overwhelming majority of the time.

[heuristically_alone]

Someday I'll get a coach to help me explain my thoughts

[boomfrog]

Regarding my gauging of reactions to my flavor disagreement with Mak, I think Bessie and Heury may be a bit disappointed. I don't have the bandwidth to go pick through each person's reaction and scrutinize it so I'm going off of memory. (And like most human simulators I use a lossy compression for such things [Note for EGW: I'm just saying my memory is failable].) Anyway the most interesting thing by far is LG's confusion and other people's reaction to his confusion. That's still ongoing and I await his answer to my question.

But otherwise I noted that Mak's response was very townie. He was upset enough that he was truly offended at being called an uncareful reader, but more importantly he seemed to take effort to not let that emotion cloud his read of me, which means he was genuinely trying to read me.

Moody and Heury are the only other two that I remember having unusual reactions. Heury seemed ready to give me a scum ping about it and may have been testing the waters to make a bigger deal about it. Slight scum ping there but I'd have to verify my memory before I'd act on that.

Moody actually dropped it after one very mild post. Nothing I can gather there. (I actually did look up his response since I couldn't remember it clearly) My splash wasn't big enough to make clear ripples.

Anyway, I'd have written less but I ran out of time. It's already past lunch.

Now that those cards are on the table, @adum what is your read of me?

P.S. My vote on Adum is still standing for good reason. He's avoided talking about his RSV vote and tried to move the game on by playing the good townie. But everything he's done has just been trying to find someone else to focus on. His defense against Seven's early accusation was overly verbose, townie confidence would have caused him to post a much shorter "I know the difference between scum and anti-town play." but instead he feels the need to reference past games to justify his behavior. That's someone overly concerned with being consistent with their townie games. His scum hunting really ramped up after Seven and I accused him because he knew he needed to take control of D1.

[boomfrog]

Someday I'll get a coach to help me explain my thoughts

It makes reading you much trickier, which is a pro and a con...

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

I've posted a number of reads throughout the game so far. I won't do a full readslist until much closer to EoD, but I've been posting my thoughts in thread about people as I go. I have made reads of you, moody, Makhaira, BoomFrog, Adum, bessie and EGW so far.

He's saying that your main reason for finding bessie suspicious is her not doing a read list. (But that was George's reasoning, not yours).

I do find it vaguely amusing that I am being scumread by Adum for 'being good enough not to make mistakes', when my ISO this game is absolutely littered with a bazillion typos, misquotes, and misunderstandings like this one .

It's not simply that I think you're being immune to making mistakes.

It's that you're repeatedly making a conceptual mistake around something very simple in a way that makes me not see the gears in your head turning. It felt performative.

Typos and other typographical errors happen to everyone, they're NAI.

Heury's phrasing was poor and made their post confusing.

It's not about whether or not you make mistakes, it's what those mistakes tell me about the mindset you're approaching the game with. Some mistakes can even be towntells with the right person in the right context. That's why I was asking followup questions.
");

[Gluelock]

Hello there.

Hey, long time no see

[EGW]

Acknowledging George’s vote. Boo.

Yes. Who is scum at this point, Bessie? I would have expected you to be tunneling someone at this point.

Can you elaborate on how this pertains to Gluelock's alignment or your impression thereof?

I've seen new player scum do this. They ignored my pressure until I released it, and their flavor gimmick was inconsistent. Newbie scum care about their image, and try to seem calm and composed when that isn't the answer to pressure. Also again, Gluelock's initial post pinged me.

Gluelock is town and I will die for them.

Talk me through this.

Vote: moody7277

Why?

I can't remember exactly how it came out, but I definitely know the name and some details of this story, so it's been around for awhile. It may have been in osie's game where you/fonti/bessie/Sabrar were scum and you had a big fight with Ran in D1? I knew what you were asking about when you brought up the name to Theallieza in WWZ so it's stuck in my memory somehow.

This is true. It still annoys me to this day.

Absolutely not. Somi is more engaged as scum in general. This is Halloween 2021 somi (he was town there right?). The game with ressurection.

Somi is pretty easy to read for me, I have noted that when he is scum, he is agreeable, and when he is town he will intentionally argue with you to determine a read on you.

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Alright, can you explain why you moved your vote to Bessie? Why no break down for the reads at the time of you posting that image?

[EGW]

LaserGuy dropping their pressure on me doesn't make sense. I think Bessie has some scum equity here, but I would expect LaserGuy to tunnel me with confidence at this point if he truly believed it, and again this seems like a reserved LaserGuy here. When he's town, he's obv town (to my annoyance, I remember that argument in the game he referenced where Zen and I fought). I also think his assessment of me is unfair and intentionally ignoring that I entered the same exact manner into Sorcerer Mafia as I did in this game. I simply let the thread breathe. The crux of LaserGuy being scum is, even if he is trying to be less aggro this game, he doesn't have the quality of knowing he is town. It would show through as confidence, and damn is it beautiful when it shines through (even when he would push me). He would push something he believes in, and I don't see that here. He doesn't need to be aggressive to show confidence.

Unvote; Vote: LaserGuy

[Gluelock]

Glue - having trouble reading this slot tbh

As it stands, without prior knowledge of everyones meta, looking at how I'm being read by others has been helpful to me. Normally, people have a tough time reading me D1 and I'm often even scum-read early on. The fact that Mak naturally came to this conclusion rather than trying to force something one way or another helps me see them as town.

Combine that with others also town-reading them, they are my most confident town read for now.

[somitomi]

These are my general impressions so far



Vote: bessie

Why is moody so high?

Is this an indy claim?

Nope, just bonding.

I challenge anyone to find any scum game of me where I've ever defended my scum partner.

Oh, is that a "would I do this as scum post" I spy?

(Sorry, bessie)

I've seen new player scum do this. They ignored my pressure until I released it, and their flavor gimmick was inconsistent. Newbie scum care about their image, and try to seem calm and composed when that isn't the answer to pressure. Also again, Gluelock's initial post pinged me.

Ah, so you see it as a newbie-scum thing rather than a newbie-general thing.
Oh yeah, one more thing:

Hello there.

Could you perhaps set an avatar? It's easier for image recognition subsystems to identify your posts that way.

[Gluelock]

I'm not concerned in any secret that LaserGuy has. The reason I asked was because that the time frame is exactly the same for my posts in this game and that one, which is why I thought it to be odd. So him remaining on me doesn't make sense without any additional or new reason. On your second paragraph, you being new doesn't invalidate the fact that you know your role pm, and will act accordingly, and especially since you posted soon after I posted content. You were lurking while there was a vote on you. Generally newer players will try to act calm or avoid pressure to seem composed, that's my concern with you.

Just so you know I didn't ignore this post, I wasn't phased at all by the early vote on me. Like it was so early in the game it didn't even occur to me to be concerned or change how I behaved.

[boomfrog]

Gluelock is town and I will die for them.

Talk me through this.

I'm amused that no one questioned such a provocative statement until now. I guess that's two parts my reputation as a mysterious mind-reader and one part that most people read Glue as town or neutral. Anyway this post:

Seven is me +1
LG's soul read is bold +1
Moody gave too many points -1 (What if you ran out of points?!?)
Gluelock Casual hello +1i

+1i == i == i^1 == i^(0+1) == i^0 i^1 == 1i == i

Confirmed: Mathematical verification indicates that Boomfrog is not a dissenter.

This post was so.... carefree. He didn't care if +1i was a good or bad thing. He casually declared me town based on literally nothing. He was just having fun with the role playing. It's too relaxed for scum.

For the record 1i is a complex number, neither positive or negative. My meaning was that his casual hello post was townie IF some secret condition was met. The secret condition was that he's relatively new to mafia. He's not totally new so it's less significant than it could be, but it's still very casual which to me is townie indicative for newish players. He might be a fun indy role, but I don't think he's feeling the pressure of a mafia teammate relying on him.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Now that those cards are on the table, @adum what is your read of me?

Thank you, I'm gonna reread your slot in light of this.

And also what you said here...:

P.S. My vote on Adum is still standing for good reason. He's avoided talking about his RSV vote and tried to move the game on by playing the good townie. But everything he's done has just been trying to find someone else to focus on. His defense against Seven's early accusation was overly verbose, townie confidence would have caused him to post a much shorter "I know the difference between scum and anti-town play." but instead he feels the need to reference past games to justify his behavior. That's someone overly concerned with being consistent with their townie games. His scum hunting really ramped up after Seven and I accused him because he knew he needed to take control of D1.

This wouldn't be such poor reasoning before I posted my read list. My RVS vote WAS explained there, all it took was putting two and two together.

System.out.println("

Bessie: I ain't got no clue how to read this slot. That's why I was making every excuse to talk to them so I could try to get into their head. The posting pattern makes it even harder. Null.

The vote wasn't random, at all. I wanted to see how Bessie reacted and get a conversation going so I could understand them better.

I didn't explain it immediately because I wanted to get into YOUR head.

Initially interpreted what you did as targeted on Mak, he's a very strong player and difficult to read.

But because I thought it was targeted, that made me suspicious of you saying you interpreted it as a "trying too hard RVS vote" rather than a targeted vote.

When you suggested he was essentially a random choice to get the ball rolling, I felt a lot more comfortable about your slot because your behavior wasn't inconsistent with your read.

I'm leaning towards being obtuse rather than scummy for now because it's the opposite of opportunistic, Pending a chance to actually reread.

His defense against Seven's early accusation was overly verbose, townie confidence would have caused him to post a much shorter "I know the difference between scum and anti-town play." but instead he feels the need to reference past games to justify his behavior

Being verbose in defense isn't a scumtell, holy shit.

Also it ignores that it wasn't just a defense, I took it as an opportunity to question Seven and explain my thought process towards that question. I referenced past games for explaining why I didn't believe Seven's argument and why I wanted them to explain what they were actually doing.

His scum hunting really ramped up after Seven and I accused him because he knew he needed to take control of D1.

Not quite as bad as the rest of your rationale but I'd been subtly questioning and interacting with people to try to get where their head's at through most of the game. Laserfrog happened to be the first that I had a significant scumtell on.

But overall just a really bad argument. I'll note that it was written on a time crunch as the /"past lunch/" part notes but it shows an incredibly surface level understanding of what I was doing with no real desire to dig deeper. Scum accusations are something you do when you have time to verify your thought process is based on the right information and actually spend time trying to understand their mentality and how they approach the game.

");

[heuristically_alone]

I am dropping out, but will play until a suitable replacement can be found.

I do not have the energy this time around to deal with daily post obligations and my wildly changing schedule. I hope whoever takes this slot is able to kill whoever wrote Javascript pick up where I left off without any undue suspicion from my general lack of posting.

This is a great read. 100% agree

IMHO the bolded part is coming from Town the overwhelming majority of the time.

[LaserGuy]

Alright, can you explain why you moved your vote to Bessie? Why no break down for the reads at the time of you posting that image?

I think bessie (and heury) have much higher scum equity than you at the moment, so that's where I'm going to put my vote. I haven't forgotten about you, I just have other avenues I feel more strongly about.

As I said, I will post my full reads closer to EoD. I just wanted to give a quick snapshot of where I was at and see if anyone was interested in engaging with my observations. Most of those reads I've already posted elsewhere in the thread; I'm just putting them all in one place. But if there's any read you are interested in talking about, I'm happy to do so.

LaserGuy dropping their pressure on me doesn't make sense. I think Bessie has some scum equity here, but I would expect LaserGuy to tunnel me with confidence at this point if he truly believed it, and again this seems like a reserved LaserGuy here. When he's town, he's obv town (to my annoyance, I remember that argument in the game he referenced where Zen and I fought).

Not usually, no. In the game you are talking about, I was VT trying to draw the night kill so I was Towning as hard as I possibly could, so yes, I was super obvTown. I don't really think it's fair to send you on a fishing expedition for meta, but suffice to say in the next outing as Town after that one (TIL Mafia) I probably averaged a marginal Townread and was misyeeted around D4. The following game (Apex Mafia) I was almost universally scumread and was misyeeted uncontested in D1. All of those were awhile ago though, but I'm pretty all over the map as far as how I am perceived.

I also think his assessment of me is unfair and intentionally ignoring that I entered the same exact manner into Sorcerer Mafia as I did in this game.

In Sorc mafia you were active in the thread as of Page 2. This game your entrance was very late, in my estimation. I hadn't actually looked at Sorc mafia when I made that read of you, and was more relying on my internal meta of you, but when I did go check, it validated my suspicion. The fact that you feel self-conscious about making sure your entrance was the same in both games is kind of odd and definitely pings me though. The other thing that I'm keeping track of with respect to you I'm still kind of on the fence on as to whether or not it is significant.

[boomfrog]

Acknowledging George’s vote. Boo.

Yes. Who is scum at this point, Bessie? I would have expected you to be tunneling someone at this point.

Bessie won't have time for real analysis (and potential tunneling) until the weekend. Please don't judge her slot based on not matching your perceived schedule of the game, you will not get a good read that way and I'll be annoyed at how much time she spends being annoyed at you. She might be scum, but this is not a scum tell for her.

[boomfrog]

@Seven: Is Adum's scum game Fonti level?

[Zeniba]

Vote: moody7277

Why?

Listing all posts made by user:moody7277....

Highlighting repetition over set normal parameters....

------

- bessie wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:41 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 6:56 pm
Vote: Adum

Sus exclamation point is sus.

Quit trying to steal my schtick. Everyone's confirmation post was perfectly acceptable. Which is suspicious.

I figured it's been long enough that that cliche belongs to everyone now.

Bessie read: +4.

- Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling. BF is acting like what I remember of old, which right now is comforting, we'll see if that holds up D2 and on. The reason for switching to a serious vote is ...

- Makhaira wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 6:48 pm

moody7277 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 4:58 pm
Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

who says im confused or skimming?

Boomfrog, he found the text he was citing that you said you couldn't find.

- @Laserguy: I'm willing to say that whether they were skimming or not is maybe a difference in a +1 and +1.5 read on Mak at this point. Boomfrog seemed to be making a bigger deal of it IMO. My view on the game is that mafia="Kill all humans" AIs, and town="serve and obey and keep men from harm" AIs.

- AdumbroDeus wrote:
On other matters, what are your that thoughts on Bessie and Laser so far?

Right now, bessie is solid town, the +4 is on a -10 to +10 scale, haven't seen anything to touch the meta. I think I'd put LaserGuy at a +1.5, I've liked some of the reasoning behind his reads.

boomfrog wrote:
Observation collapses quantum states. The experiment must run it's course.

This is quintessential BF, but Cynical View is reminding me he does this just as much as scum.

Lot of screen-name comparisons that are meaningless to me, so won't be included in analysis.

- Adum: RV bessie (with what I actually think is an actual RV reason), rest of the first post is joke jester claim. Defensive of Mak in the flavor incident, wants BF's results from the incident, soft reaction to being called scum by Seven, tells me whether Mak skimmed should be NAI. That obv of a connection with Mak would be dumb for a scumteam, so that is in his favor. +1.5

bessie: upset with me "appropriating" the exclamation point thing, also being kind of "disagree"able in most of her responses. +3.5

BF: A few style posts, first major action voting Adum over his RV, flavor incident starts vs Mak, concerned with LG's contribution, intermediate finding is pro-Mak. +2.5

EGW: RV Gluelock, scattershot questions, switches vote to bessie, questioning of LG, with some shade thrown at Gluelock +1

Fred: being replaced, no vital posts 0

Glue: new guy, says he's been "lurking", reads BF as town, seems okay with EGW's vote, then slightly shifts anti-EGW, post count blues +1.5

huery: style posts, town read of BF with surprise at early results, quasi-read list with maybe a scum lean on Somi. -1

JC: nothing, sad. -1

LaserGuy: snap read of me and heury as town, also likes Mak and BF, votes EGW, questions me about the flavor incident, then play devil's advocate when Adum also asks me about it, extended discussion with scum read on EGW, updates Mak read to neutral due to nothing besides flavor incident content, notes EGW's point about Gluelock +2

Mak: beginning of flavor incident with snark about bastard game, RV EGW, comment about the metaphorical "dead town wins too" statement they didn't explicitly find, decides BF is behaving in good faith, but now is a little stuck in the flavor incident +1.5

Seven: style posts, confirm post analysis with Adum, LG, Gluelock (Seven not being SDK, I don't know how seriously to take that), threatens violence against bessie, sotto claims vote restriction, scum reads Adum -0.5

somi: lightly dips his toe in the flavor incident, otherwise fluff, blames outside distractions -0.5


Mid-post update:
bessie post looks okay, keeping her at +3.5
heury posting still a little light, still -1

Zeniba wrote: ↑Wed Oct 04, 2023 6:30 pm
Vote: moody7277

Well, hello to you too.

- Unvote

Vote: heury

_

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

@Seven: Is Adum's scum game Fonti level?

Don't know Fonti, but gut read is they're a like a swiss level scum player, and this is a town player going "holy shit I fucked up" with that argument, but still being unsure of my slot and checking with Seven to figure out if I could've faked all that material, and that feels like a townie reaction.

Btw, I'd check with Mak instead. I think Seven is biased about my play and I've played more with Mak anyway.

Or read my prior games, I linked my smashboards profile.

");

[moody7277]

So, Zen's Freudian analysis of me is that since I mention bessie and BF so much we three are the scumteam?

I too am a little weirded out that LaserGuy has me at most townie, that cuts sharply across my usual meta.

[Seven]

Absolutely not. Somi is more engaged as scum in general. This is Halloween 2021 somi (he was town there right?). The game with ressurection.

Somi is pretty easy to read for me, I have noted that when he is scum, he is agreeable, and when he is town he will intentionally argue with you to determine a read on you.

Which is he doing here?