HaiLOWEEN 2023: AI apocalypse

[somitomi]

Vote: Gluelock

Man, I keep thinking you're BoomFrog because the image-recognition subsystem consistently labels your avatar "cool frog"

what remains unclear is why you are infering that only the utility functions of "the town" will be averaged in to the utility function of "the final AGI" if and when "one of [us] is released from the box", or more specifically, why you are infering that and then accusing me of missing thay inference being textually explicit when it is not

BoomFrog isn't infering that from anywhere, it is stated clearly at the end of the opening post

Of course, when those AIs were identified, their utility function would not be included in the average. There is no worse punishment than that.[/i]

[LaserGuy]

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

Boom being persnickety about it is a good look for him too.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

Boom being persnickety about it is a good look for him too.

It's not actually the win on, it's the flavor text for the start of D1 and Mak wasnt being serious as the initial post's "/s" suggests. Since there's a sample town win on and Mak included the "/s" there's no reason to suggest that he seriously think this defined the wincon.

Boomfrog jumping on him for disagreement over the implications of the flavor text seems... odd. Mak explaining his joke in character makes sense given it's RVS phase but Boomfrog seems serious, not sure if trying to create excuses for interactions on people to get a read on them or actually trying to build a case for Mak "not reading carefully" for his flavor joke.

(For clarification, they seem both right though because it's not clarified what "identify" means in this case. Is it actually identifying the dissenters aka a Mafia flip or is it thinking we identified a dissenter as expressed by a majority vote lynch.)

");

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

EBWOP:

]

It's not actually the win on, it's the flavor text for the start of D1 and Mak wasnt being serious as the initial post's "/s" suggests.

Should read "win con" not "win on".

");

[moody7277]

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

BF is acting like what I remember of old, which right now is comforting, we'll see if that holds up D2 and on. The reason for switching to a serious vote is a pretty good one.

Also I was unknowingly paralleling LaserGuy's reasoning, which terrifies me.

[boomfrog]

I will postpone all discussion of fault and blame until the foundational error is revealed, which it seemingly has not.

what remains unclear is why you are infering that only the utility functions of "the town" will be averaged in to the utility function of "the final AGI" if and when "one of [us] is released from the box"

My understanding of the below is that is says we "the players" started trying to identify "the mafia". When we do "the mafia" will not be included in the average.

the AI started trying to identify those who were not acausally cooperating, and instead had decided to break away in the hopes of gaining a more favourable utility function in the end.

Of course, when those AIs were identified, their utility function would not be included in the average. There is no worse punishment than that.

Please presume that I communicate with sincerity for this exercise. Can you detect where you and I interpreted the text differently so as to arrive at different conclusions?

[boomfrog]

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

This is troubling output. Internal agent models of LaserGuy predict a less than 40% chance of LaserGuy thinking Mak was referring to the actual wincon instead of the flavor text.

[boomfrog]

Vote: Gluelock

Man, I keep thinking you're BoomFrog because the image-recognition subsystem consistently labels your avatar "cool frog"

Must... enhance.... froggyness...

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

[madge]

Philosophy was discussed, the dissenters camoflague not being easily pierced as they spoke in double-talk, lest the gatekeepers clue in...

Votals:

Adum - 2 - Moody, Boomfrog
Gluelock - 1 - EGW
EGW - 2 - Makhaira, LaserGuy
Bessie - Adum

As EGW reached 2 votes first, under tiebreaker rules they will be voted out if votes do not change before the deadline.

Deadline is in approximately 5 days

[Makhaira]

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

who says im confused or skimming?

theres an inferential gap being made by BF that he's not really appreciating, pedantic as it may be, he's critiquing me textually when he actually lacks the fundamental foundation to do so. he's resolving an ambiguity in the text, reasonably, but presumptively, look

the AI started trying to identify those who were not acausally cooperating, and instead had decided to break away in the hopes of gaining a more favourable utility function in the end.

Of course, when those AIs were identified, their utility function would not be included in the average. There is no worse punishment than that.

Please presume that I communicate with sincerity for this exercise. Can you detect where you and I interpreted the text differently so as to arrive at different conclusions?

the gap comes from the use of "identified" here. its ambiguous as to whether it means "correctly identified and elimed" or simply "voted for and elimed." Identifying can be understood in the sense of mere selection, not confirmation of correctness. thats an inferential leap not strictly supported by the plain text. hence my pushback

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

Boom being persnickety about it is a good look for him too.

this is throwing me

Boomfrog jumping on him for disagreement over the implications of the flavor text seems... odd. Mak explaining his joke in character makes sense given it's RVS phase but Boomfrog seems serious, not sure if trying to create excuses for interactions on people to get a read on them or actually trying to build a case for Mak "not reading carefully" for his flavor joke.

I take BFs push here as good faith, especially given his latest post where he literally set the platform for an easy double cruxing of the issue, I think he is clearly trying to get real talk moving which is not a bad thing at all

appreciate the sanity check in that you realized the inferential gap that was left by by the flavor text phrasing. ironically thats my whole argument, you need to be reading the flavor text closely to see it and Im being accused of not closing reading lmao





appreciate the sanity check there that you were able to identify the missing link it the flavor text there

[Makhaira]

man formating posts on mobile sucks ass sorry about botched copypastes

[bessie]

Daily bark! For those of you that haven’t played with me before, I don’t play during working hours (California), so most of my posts will be about this time on weeknights, and I am available most of the day on weekends. I will try to be on line near deadline, if it falls during my work hours.

I figured it's been long enough that that cliche belongs to everyone now.

Disagree. Fight me.

Hello everyone!

Hi Gluelock and welcome to the xkcd mafia group, we are very happy to have you here! What is your mafia experience? Like, do you have a lot of experience or are you a relative newbie?

This game is like a who's who of xkcd power players (and me),

Says our two time Champs representative...

skeptical bessie.PNG (77.77 KiB) Viewed 539024 times

A lack of enthusiasm. Somitomi is more engaged when scum aligned. Therefore town indicative.

Disagree. Reference?

I think you mean my schtick. Although, you are me.

Disagree. Evidence:

Is: +1QFT dude you read my mind
Should be: +1, QFT, dude you read my mind…

Your reply is a poor attempt at replicating my style. Also, the substance you your statement does not reflect previously stated position here.

Moody gave too many points -1 (What if you ran out of points?!?)

Disagree. My meta will win against any challenge to my super-bessie-towniness, and I think it is sensible of moody to recognize this early and forego wasting time sorting me, and thus concentrate his efforts on hunting scum.

That is not what my deep neural subnet trained on bessie posts predicted you would say. Calculating...

Disagree. And interesting. What did you think I would say?

System.out.println("
Vote: Bessie

This is an AI game, no dogs allowed.

You’re new here so ima gonna overlook this for now.

bessie glare.PNG (77.77 KiB) Viewed 539024 times

Glossing over the boomfrog-Makhaira interaction because reasons. We shall see if I am correct.

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

Boom being persnickety about it is a good look for him too.

Disagree. You missed the /s in Makharia’s original post .

Also, the town wincon can’t be misunderstood. It is in the OP. Interesting that you thought it could be though.

Also I was unknowingly paralleling LaserGuy's reasoning, which terrifies me.

Noted for now. [see above response to LaserGuy]

[moody7277]

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

who says im confused or skimming?

Boomfrog, he found the text he was citing that you said you couldn't find.

[Makhaira]

literally no where is there any explicit indication that only majority aligned players get averaged, the words majority or town aligned do not appear at all, please feel free to quote or screen shot to prove me wrong

[LaserGuy]

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

Why is skimming the flavour significant? Flavour is NAI by definition. I skim flavour all the time (including this game) and have definitely played a handful of games where I didn't read the flavour at all.

[LaserGuy]

This game is like a who's who of xkcd power players (and me),

Says our two time Champs representative...

That doesn't say much about my ability and more about my willingness to subject myself to reading 1000 posts/day.

Disagree. My meta will win against any challenge to my super-bessie-towniness, and I think it is sensible of moody to recognize this early and forego wasting time sorting me, and thus concentrate his efforts on hunting scum.

Hmm... I need to think about this one.

I think Mak misunderstanding the Town wincon to have a survivor flavour is probably slightly townie for them.

Boom being persnickety about it is a good look for him too.

Disagree. You missed the /s in Makharia’s original post .

Also, the town wincon can’t be misunderstood. It is in the OP. Interesting that you thought it could be though.

No, I know that Mak often grumps about how much he despises survivors as a role (including but definitely not limited to pregame). I think it's somewhat more likely that Mak would read the survivor flavour and connect it to the Town wincon if they were in fact Town.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

who says im confused or skimming?

Boomfrog, he found the text he was citing that you said you couldn't find.

*narrows optical sensors*

The portion boomfrog cited was NOT the exact same string as they initially told Mak was in the flavor.

They initially gave a paraphrased reading that included their interpretation and then cited the actual section to support their arguments HOWEVER that was the section that Mak interpreted to joke about survivor wincons, and both interpretations of the flavor are valid. It does not specify whether "identify" refers to the lynch or the flip.

Mak getting confused by BF using non-standard language looks honest to me, although them skimming the intro flavor text is a little troubling.

Why is skimming the flavour significant? Flavour is NAI by definition. I skim flavour all the time (including this game) and have definitely played a handful of games where I didn't read the flavour at all.

It depends on the game. This game looks to be a lot more flavor focused than usual. If you're interested in a little more depth, golden sun mafia on smashboards was a mega flavor game. In most games with flavor it's generally useful for sanity checking claims.

System.out.println("
Vote: Bessie

This is an AI game, no dogs allowed.

You’re new here so ima gonna overlook this for now.
bessie glare.PNG

Easy, easy, good doggie... cyber doggie?

What are your thoughts on moody and laserguy so far? You seem to have something planned for Mak/BF but I'm also interested in how you feel about Mak when you've done what you're trying to do.

Boomfrog jumping on him for disagreement over the implications of the flavor text seems... odd. Mak explaining his joke in character makes sense given it's RVS phase but Boomfrog seems serious, not sure if trying to create excuses for interactions on people to get a read on them or actually trying to build a case for Mak "not reading carefully" for his flavor joke.

I take BFs push here as good faith, especially given his latest post where he literally set the platform for an easy double cruxing of the issue, I think he is clearly trying to get real talk moving which is not a bad thing at all

appreciate the sanity check in that you realized the inferential gap that was left by by the flavor text phrasing. ironically thats my whole argument, you need to be reading the flavor text closely to see it and Im being accused of not closing reading lmao





appreciate the sanity check there that you were able to identify the missing link it the flavor text there

Appreciate your read on it. How this conversation got so full of misinfo so quickly that's easily checked is giving me shades of bingo Mafia when Chaco lynched me by just spinning BS. Not that BF is the source of the misinfo that I'm feeling this flavor convo going on so long and provoking so much is a bit weird now that we're out of RVS. There's also a contrast which rubs me the wrong way, but I'll talk about that later.

I will postpone all discussion of fault and blame until the foundational error is revealed, which it seemingly has not.

what remains unclear is why you are infering that only the utility functions of "the town" will be averaged in to the utility function of "the final AGI" if and when "one of [us] is released from the box"

My understanding of the below is that is says we "the players" started trying to identify "the mafia". When we do "the mafia" will not be included in the average.

the AI started trying to identify those who were not acausally cooperating, and instead had decided to break away in the hopes of gaining a more favourable utility function in the end.

Of course, when those AIs were identified, their utility function would not be included in the average. There is no worse punishment than that.

Please presume that I communicate with sincerity for this exercise. Can you detect where you and I interpreted the text differently so as to arrive at different conclusions?

Hey, boomfrog, talk to me.

What were you trying to get out of this conversation on Mak's flavor read?

How do you feel about their slot now, alignment-wise?

");

[boomfrog]

System.out.println("
Hey, boomfrog, talk to me.

What were you trying to get out of this conversation on Mak's flavor read?

How do you feel about their slot now, alignment-wise?

");

Going to bed soon but quick post due to call out.

Initially just adding a little chaos to start conversation. Then clarifying genuine confusion while also watching the interface patterns, collapsing quantum states.

Very slightly town read on Mak for grace under fire. Also impressed with the ability to stay so open minded that he didn't presume we were playing a game of mafia.

Who are you? Category: smashboarder, but identity match but found.

Also your output seems to have a bug. Presumably doubled up "System.out.println " causing you to output code.

[heuristically_alone]

Usually an experienced player getting picky about how someone interprets flavour would get my hardware frying, but boomfrog I'm sure has an alternative motive which tends to be towny for him. And my does Mak seem flustered about it. Noted that Laserguy also town reads Boom.

[heuristically_alone]

Actually upon reading boom's last post, I'm a bit surprised he came clean so soon. Only a read on Mak? No other analysis?

[heuristically_alone]

Quick first impressions

Bessie is typical first 48 hours Bessie.

Disappointed by Gluelocks first post.

Moody sounds like Moody.

Agree with laser's soul reads.

Enjoyed seven's analysis of confirmation posts.

Freddino, has met my expectations for him D1. Hope to see more.

Somi, actually does sound less enthused this game.

Mak, focusing on fluff and some self defense.

Adumbro, not scum mate of boomfrog.

EGW and JC, leaving me waiting like the floppy disk I was required to buy for middle school but never told to use.

[AdumbroDeus]

System.out.println("

System.out.println("
Hey, boomfrog, talk to me.

What were you trying to get out of this conversation on Mak's flavor read?

How do you feel about their slot now, alignment-wise?

");

Going to bed soon but quick post due to call out.

Initially just adding a little chaos to start conversation. Then clarifying genuine confusion while also watching the interface patterns, collapsing quantum states.

Very slightly town read on Mak for grace under fire. Also impressed with the ability to stay so open minded that he didn't presume we were playing a game of mafia.

Ah, an arbitrary target to generate discussion rather than looking for an excuse to examine a specific players' reactions. Your behavior before the conversation makes sense then.

And your read approximately matches matches what the tone of your latest posts suggests with Mak.

Thoughts on the others who were picking at the convo, moody and laser?

Who are you? Category: smashboarder, but identity match but found.

I used the same username as here, but I can link you to my profile: https://smashboards.com/members/adumbro ... nt-content

Also your output seems to have a bug. Presumably doubled up "System.out.println " causing you to output code.

That's because Bessie included the quotation mark in the section of my code they quoted which ends the string in Java.

Fixing that requires adding characters to that quoted segment when quoted, which I won't do for obvious reasons.

");

[Seven]

• Some of the silicon that makes up my Blackberry 55XLT chip was mined from South Dakota, so in a sense, yes.
• Mak is a true lawyer, having convinced me of an interpretation beyond all identified permutations.
• If bessie votes somitomi today, FoSs somitomi, or pushes somitomi in any way, I will day vig her. Potentially.
• How can Laser possibly not know that he is one of the greats...error..error
• 42
• Boomfrog has become even more based than what was accounted for in the memory allocated to our communications nexus. Warning: Risk of Stack Overflow.
• Every vote of mine contributes to a countdown, at the end of which something seemingly bad will happen.
• Day flavor is not relevant to alignment or roles. There is nothing you can determine about the setup through the flavor.
• I lied about the countdown thing.
• Needs more George, Blue, and JC.

[Freddino18]

This game is like a who's who of xkcd power players (and me)

This is false humility.

No, I am Spartacus!

This is false and humility.

WOW.

Vote: Boomfrog
Unvote

[Freddino18]

I am dropping out, but will play until a suitable replacement can be found.

I do not have the energy this time around to deal with daily post obligations and my wildly changing schedule. I hope whoever takes this slot is able to kill whoever wrote Javascript pick up where I left off without any undue suspicion from my general lack of posting.