Millerizer Mafia - Game Over

[EGW]

I am keen on them to post when they return.

Agreed. I'd like more from them so I can solidify my read on them. I know that they have trouble faking reads as scum, so it should be easy to read them if and when they generate more content.

[heuristically_alone]

Town [EGW > Bessie > J > Sabrar > Heury > Somitomi | Court > Madge > Fred] Scum

Unvote; Vote: Fred

If someone else flipped Indy right now, what would your read/lean be for Court?

Also I completely disagree with your assessment of freddino. I don't blame him for wanting to understand the mechanics before starting to look for scum. I also think you're reading too much into some of his jokey mannerisms. -0.5 for an "easy" push. I do agree that getting some actually reads from him would be beneficial in getting a more guaranteed read.

@freddino can you give us at least at this point some candidates you believe would be desirable to vote?

[EGW]

If someone else flipped Indy right now, what would your read/lean be for Court?

It would be a scumlean yes, and I would re-evaluate. Do you have any idea who else would be Indy if not Court?

-0.5 for an "easy" push.

I voted Madge, and then Fred. I don't have a problem voting for whoever I feel is most likely to be scum. What matters most to me is the accuracy of the elimination. Mechanics is easy to focus on as scum instead actually focusing on scumhunting. I think his joking is intentional, especially the editing and voting no elimination twice. He wants others to think he's un-aligned with mafia, and it has been working. Now, you disagree on Fred being scum. Any better ideas? By the way, I like this post from you. It strengthens my town-lean of you a bit.

[Prince J]

I figured it was Ran tbh haha~ <3

Hiya homie ^.^

[EGW]

Sup J. Also Court is Bardul. It's good to actually play with you again.

[Prince J]

Also off the cuff, I don't really think it's Fred.

Boo. Is it because you think Court/Bessie are the team? If Court flipped millerizer, would you reconsider? I strongly believe Bessie is town here by the way. I am factoring meta into it as well though. (I have been mafia with her before and I have read her correctly as mafia when I was town and she was mafia)

I don't think it's Court/Bessie tho was a musing I had based on Bessie getting a lot of town-points without any like harder stances and commentary posts with her catch-ups and then Court is fluffy and non-committal and says a lot though which tbh just felt like "huh, I could see it"

I'm not really focusing on Indy vs. Mafia vs X because anti-town faction is anti-town and they just gotta go. Getting the Millerizer out works for both sides in the sense of the game has about 3-4 phases before auto-win from Millerizer while in continuation with flips. So it's probs someone floating the middle ground which works for a couple of the names being listed.

Also you remember my opinion on meta and how I'm proven, to you personally, how silly that notion can be? =p

[Prince J]

COURT IS BARDULL

Well now I don't wanna kill him.

Wah

[Prince J]

For old times sake~

It's a pleasure to play with you both again and if any other DGamers are here, I hope you enjoy this post.

[EGW]

Lol that brings some memories.

[Prince J]

Lol that brings some memories.

Can you believe it's been like 12+ years? xD

[Prince J]

Town [EGW > Bessie > J > Sabrar > Heury > Somitomi | Court > Madge > Fred] Scum

Unvote; Vote: Fred

If someone else flipped Indy right now, what would your read/lean be for Court?

Also I completely disagree with your assessment of freddino. I don't blame him for wanting to understand the mechanics before starting to look for scum. I also think you're reading too much into some of his jokey mannerisms. -0.5 for an "easy" push. I do agree that getting some actually reads from him would be beneficial in getting a more guaranteed read.

@freddino can you give us at least at this point some candidates you believe would be desirable to vote?

Who do you think should go then if you could choose a name?

[EGW]

Also you remember my opinion on meta and how I'm proven, to you personally, how silly that notion can be? =p

Yes I'm aware that meta can burn me but I still like to use it as a tool and try to reconsider. For example take Somitomi, who seems very slightly town from his initial posts but I'm concerned I'm wrong about him most likely, hopefully his posts will help me read him better ToDay. Anyway on Bessie you would really need to sell me and I wouldn't consider her ToDay at all at the very least. On indy vs Mafia, I'm not too pressed either. I'm quite happy if either flip today.

[EGW]

Can you believe it's been like 12+ years? xD

Yeah, we're getting old. Yet I always enjoy playing with all of y'all. Smash Boards + XKCD.

[EGW]

COURT IS BARDULL. Well now I don't wanna kill him. Wah

Lol. Does this change your read on him at all?

[Prince J]

COURT IS BARDULL. Well now I don't wanna kill him. Wah

Lol. Does this change your read on him at all?

Not really as 10+ year meta is not viable and also just more of a like "omg yay friendo" vibe

[Prince J]

Also you remember my opinion on meta and how I'm proven, to you personally, how silly that notion can be? =p

Yes I'm aware that meta can burn me but I still like to use it as a tool and try to reconsider. For example take Somitomi, who seems very slightly town from his initial posts but I'm concerned I'm wrong about him most likely, hopefully his posts will help me read him better ToDay. Anyway on Bessie you would really need to sell me and I wouldn't consider her ToDay at all at the very least. On indy vs Mafia, I'm not too pressed either. I'm quite happy if either flip today.

I don't think Somitomi is "very slightly town" they really haven't done anything tbh.

I'm not considering Bessie toDay either lol.

[heuristically_alone]

If someone else flipped Indy right now, what would your read/lean be for Court?

It would be a scumlean yes, and I would re-evaluate. Do you have any idea who else would be Indy if not Court?

-0.5 for an "easy" push.

I voted Madge, and then Fred. I don't have a problem voting for whoever I feel is most likely to be scum. What matters most to me is the accuracy of the elimination. Mechanics is easy to focus on as scum instead actually focusing on scumhunting. I think his joking is intentional, especially the editing and voting no elimination twice. He wants others to think he's un-aligned with mafia, and it has been working. Now, you disagree on Fred being scum. Any better ideas? By the way, I like this post from you. It strengthens my town-lean of you a bit.

Town [EGW > Bessie > J > Sabrar > Heury > Somitomi | Court > Madge > Fred] Scum

Unvote; Vote: Fred

If someone else flipped Indy right now, what would your read/lean be for Court?

Also I completely disagree with your assessment of freddino. I don't blame him for wanting to understand the mechanics before starting to look for scum. I also think you're reading too much into some of his jokey mannerisms. -0.5 for an "easy" push. I do agree that getting some actually reads from him would be beneficial in getting a more guaranteed read.

@freddino can you give us at least at this point some candidates you believe would be desirable to vote?

Who do you think should go then if you could choose a name?

I don't have any leans toward an Indy at this moment, rather a small list of players I do not believe are indy (freddino, Madge). I believe hunting for scum first should be priority as the godfather is currently a greater threat to town.

Currently EGW has been pushed to my top suspect, due to seeming to appear as an opportunist. Also, your reads matchup the setup perfectly which before this game I wouldn't have thought much about, but I keep thinking about what Bessie said about being suspicious of players whose reads matched the setup and I am inclined to agree. I am not opposed to a Sabrar vote as this time either. And I would like to hear more for Madge.

@Sabrar and Madge. Top 3 candidates to vote today?

[EGW]

Currently EGW has been pushed to my top suspect, due to seeming to appear as an opportunist. Also, your reads matchup the setup perfectly <snip>

Please elaborate. Also I haven't thought about the setup deeply, all I have are scumreads and a miller read. There's two scum, and one miller, so that would make sense to have two scum reads and a miller read. Otherwise I have no idea what you mean and it would be nice if you could explain that further.

[EGW]

I don't think Somitomi is "very slightly town" they really haven't done anything tbh. I'm not considering Bessie toDay either lol.

Mostly a tone read. Yet that is a good point, and why I'm interested in his content today.

[EGW]

Heury, what's your updated ordered reads list?

[somitomi]

Then you have successfully hoodwinked me. What I admire about you is how open you are with what is on your mind so it's not that you're not cunning enough, it's that I suspect these things thoughts would've passed your mind during pregame with a scum partner and those thoughts cannot be contained.

Surely if I had time to strategise with someone during pregame I would've had the time to think of ways to pretend that I didn't though.

I'm grouping these two because both show a fundamental misunderstanding of the Millerizer role (although in different ways). I would say that it's highly unlikely that this is posturing from Madge and almost impossible to be posturing from Freddino. For now I think we can safely rule them out from being Millerizer.

I agree, especially with regards to Fred.

Everyone’s confirmation post was acceptable. Prince J was in the middle because he didn’t make one. You were at the bottom because yours was the least like mine. It’s an ordered list, and the point of an ordered list is that there’s an order.

I don't really know what your issue was with me pretending to take your list at face value or why you're now arguing something that seems at least adjacent to what I just said about the neutral line not mattering.

Regarding somitomi, I thought it was weird that somitomi went from assuming my opening post was a joke to seemingly pivoting to not assuming it was a joke anymore and deciding they didn’t know what it was in actuality. Was kind of bizarre from my point of view

Honestly, you got me, I can't track down the line of thinking that lead to me thinking it might not be in jest either.
----
I agree with Prince's assessment of Court's reads, it's a bit... much ado about not much.

At the moment, I disliked Sabrar giving his opinion so soon, which can taint others opinions instead of letting the dispute naturally resolve first. However, I simply find it anti-town.

As originally stated, I believe that Madge never cared to follow up with her question to Bessie. I ask because its easy as scum to start a line of questioning but forget to keep up with it because scum truly don't care.

My man, there was nothing to follow up on there,

Fred:
Fred is intentionally making himself look confused to seem un-aligned with mafia. This is made apparent with his question to Madge asking if she has not considered that he was simply being stupid. That's what he wants everyone to perceive him as. It's a tactic I have used as newbie scum. Fred also seems a bit cautious and more interested in talking about mechanics rather than trying to help find mafia. Being a newbie his reasons would most likely not be great but he doesn't even give it a shot when asked to give out a list of suspects. However when giving thoughts on players he mentions Madge being stinky, yet when questioned on it he states it was a joke which seems misplaced in a response to Bessie about his thoughts on the game. Scum lean.

While I' have seen a newbie player swindling us all by playing up the confused newbie-ness to an epic degree, confusing a role modifier with alignment on purpose would be some absolute galaxy brain move. I don't think that's within the realm of plausibility based on what we've seen so far.

Please elaborate. Also I haven't thought about the setup deeply, all I have are scumreads and a miller read. There's two scum, and one miller, so that would make sense to have two scum reads and a miller read. Otherwise I have no idea what you mean and it would be nice if you could explain that further.

Sure, but why even care about how many scum we have? There's zero confirmed information so I don't see the point of making your reads a complete game solve. When I do reads on D1, I don't care how many scum there are in the setup or if the people in the scum pile make sense as a team, I just put anyone who I find suspicious on the scummy end of the list. I could be wrong about any one of them so there's little point in eliminating suspects based on team analysis. This kinda looks like you filled out the scum-quota and called it a day.

[somitomi]

EBWOP, because I forgot to type my actual remark here:

At the moment, I disliked Sabrar giving his opinion so soon, which can taint others opinions instead of letting the dispute naturally resolve first. However, I simply find it anti-town.

Um, I'm not sure I quite understand that second remark, the "however" makes it seem like your opinion changed but then you just say it's anti-town again?

[EGW]

My reads are using this in mind. I always order my reads list from Town to Scum, however since we have a millerizer in the setup (I mean what else can there be, it's an open setup) and two scum, as said in the post I linked, there's one millerizer in the reads, otherwises nothing would fit. I think it's pretty clear to see my thought process. Also yes, I'm trying to game solve. It's what I most like to do. Especially on Day 1.

[Sabrar]

Unvote

It's highly unlikely that I'll be here close to deadline so I plan to place my final vote tomorrow around the same time.

bessie: this is bessie!bessie. She has a consistent style which never fails to annoy me and she knows how to tailor her content to specifically deceive me (because it's always about me me me) if necessary. I think bessie's alignment will be reliably determinable D3 (or if we're lucky D2) when connections will appear after some flips.

Court: I'm hoping their old username will spark some memories about them that I can use for my evaluation. As others have noted their only actual contribution was a very non-committal read-list which I would not expect from an experienced player who is really intent on solving. Also there is an interesting thing here:

Sabrar kinda sticks out to me this game. Early combativeness with EGW and huery, not really sure why he is contemplating Bessie’s set up speculation.

They were the only one who commented about the fun little aside we had with bessie regarding setup-speculation. Again, I would have thought the joke was obvious, instead they try to use it in their reads as if it was serious, without contemplating on bessie's part in it. Scum-lean for now.

EGW: I remember an old game where Seven identified George based on his lack of enthusiasm. While I usually don't agree with George's reads as I've mentioned before, I've come to learn that this does not necessarily mean that he has malicious intent and his energy-level here reminds me of his townie-play in previous games. Also good pushes to generate content. Solid town-lean.

Fred: offered no opinion on anyone, just some flawed mechanical discussion. I disagree with George that this is somehow 'evidently intentional' and that all the small things reinforce this. I think George is making the same mistake here as in some previous games, by deciding on an outcome in advance and then interpreting everything with that in mind. However this doesn't mean that George is incorrect and Fred can be easily scum who didn't receive much mentoring pregame. I'm still pretty sure that Fred isn't Millerizer but I need a lot more content from them before I can even begin to speculate on their alignment.

heury: content is a bit light but he is paying attention and offers his opinion on his own. I don't have too much recollection of scum!heury but so far I have a slight town-lean.

madge: madge usually hates D1, this amount of content feels odd to me (even though part of it can be explained by the 'wanting to help out the newbie' attitude). What also feels weird is how she's constantly bringing up vintage!Madge, like a shield to hide behind. These ping me enough to have a slight scum-lean on her.

Prince J: very open style of posting, with some good observations. Definitely getting a townie-vibe, though if George could tell me about their meta as scum that would be really helpful.

somitomi: has very little content and is completely able to hoodwink me if he's scum. That is a scary combination but nothing to make lean either way at this point. Ninja'd by his latest post: mostly reactive, possibly useful for connections later on but still not really alignment-indicative apart from a slight defensiveness.

TOWN
EGW
Prince J
heury

bessie
Fred
somitomi

madge
Court
SCUM

Vote: Court

[EGW]

Um, I'm not sure I quite understand that second remark, the "however" makes it seem like your opinion changed but then you just say it's anti-town again?

I personally disliked his interuption (to the point of talkin about it post game with him in the past), but I found it anti-town. Not that I disliked it relating to his alignment, and changed my opinion. Hope that's clear. In this post you can see that I make that distinction clear in the last sentence.