Millerizer Mafia - Game Over

[Prince J]

Sabre/Madge either probs both town or one contains deepwolf from early thread presence.

[Prince J]

I'm gonna stop spamming, yet I'm around for a bit of the night so I'll keep an eye on the thread~

[Court]

Sabre/Madge either probs both town or one contains deepwolf from early thread presence.

Welcome to the game, sir.

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

[Court]

Vote: EGW

I know we are going to clash at some point, best to get it over with.

Hello sir. Could you elaborate on the extent of your interactions with EGW prior to this game starting? Trying to draw an accurate narrative for myself regarding your interrelations with him.

[Prince J]

Sabre/Madge either probs both town or one contains deepwolf from early thread presence.

Welcome to the game, sir.

Could you elaborate on this a bit?

For sure,

It's more due to social posturing while also being proactive that I see them as both villagers currently or containing someone doing deep work early.

However, that's more a pure-honest head-space as I am just going to try and be as transparent as possible since I usually get read to filth for playing closed/neutral.

[EGW]

Lame read, but I didn't like Court's vote on Bessie and felt a bit concurrent with thread climate towards her yet the first true vote.

Could also be towny reading similarly, yet something just pinged me a tad here.

I like this post, simply because Court's post there pinged me there, but for a different reason. I'm not entirely sure his vote was serious, and it seemed to be the odd one out when things were getting serious, yet he posted that and dipped while others kept talking. I agree with your point that Madge seems to be posturing from the beginning, and it's actually in line with my thinking that scum took advantage of the time they had with pregame to have a good start. I'm not entirely sure I see that there for Sabrar though, but I find his interruption more so anti-town than posturing.

[EGW]

Sabrar - doesn't usually answer other's questions and of others without them responding right? -1

Can you elaborate on this?

[bessie]

Woof! For anyone that hasn’t played with me before, I don’t post during work hours. Most of my posting will be around this time of day.

bessie's gonna scumread me for that one lol sry

Not for that in itself, but I’ve been thinking about this:

what have i done to earn the spot on your grr list???????

Why do you think your placement on that list indicates I am Grr reading you? There’s no neutral line indicated on that list.

As always I am eagerly awaiting bessie's setup-spec.

I’ve thought this over carefully, and here’s my current setup spec:
(6) Town, one of which is a power role, and one or more of which is a backup for the power role.
(2) Mafia, with one power role, possibly a Godfather.
(1) Independent that doesn’t win with any other faction.

@Sabrar, what do you think of my setup spec? Do you agree?

because it's clearly a joke??

It’s not clearly a joke and you should know better.

What is happening? Do we vote on the first day? I am struggling to type. Help

Hi Freddino! If you are town, you should be posting all your thoughts. Don’t worry about being right or wrong about your reads. It’s an extremely rare skill to be able to read the game correctly from page one. What’s important is that we talk, because rereading early game content can help determine alignment late in the game.

If you are non-town, you should still be posting your thoughts so that you appear townie.

If you have any questions regarding general gameplay and rules, you can ask in thread and someone will answer truthfully. If you have any specific questions about your role, or questions that are alignment indicative, you should PM Seven. If you are not sure if a question is alignment indicative, you should PM Seven.

Come on, bessie, can't we work together just once instead of clashing? Please?

Interesting. How are we clashing?

Bessie, was this and your opening a joke? Also, thoughts on Madge and the game so far?

No.

I think Madge’s confirmation post was really quick. I’m not sure if that is relevant yet.
I was surprised Madge didn’t answer Freddino’s question when she had opportunity to do so. Madge is very helpful to newbies, and I expected something like this post in her opening.
Madge should have realized I was serious in this post . So should Sabrar.

Anyway, anyone want to hold hands?

bessie and Court.PNG (183.9 KiB) Viewed 2767 times

I should be higher up on the Woof to Grrr scale…what is this load of barnacles, Bessie?

sorry.PNG (97.67 KiB) Viewed 2767 times

It doesn't make any sense from you to take bessie's woof-to-grrr list seriously. It was posted 6 minutes after mod announced day-start, with no content from anyone else. Theoretically it could have been based on confirmation posts which bessie tends to do but we can disregard that idea because of her 'explanation': "Your content up to the time of my post. You know better."
If you don't see the joke in there then I really cannot help you. Madge knows the list in jest and does not need a serious follow-up.
You may believe that me butting in will taint your results somehow but this interpretation should be clear to anyone paying attention.

Confirmation posts count as content.
There is no neutral line on that list. What makes you think I Grr read anyone from it? Or, more interestingly, what makes you think I don’t?

at which point, in Bessie's opinion, I start to see the matrix code and I pull of a scheme based on the set-up that benefits my faction enormously. She'll have some citation of where I turned around a losing game that she'll bring out.

This is true. If Madge is town she will be a great asset at endgame. I could probably find examples but my game archive isn’t easily searchable so you need to wait for something to pop in to my head.

I'm with madge and Sabrar on this one, bessie's list was clearly a joke from the word go and madge's reaction was rather jestful too (same goes for Court and yours truly). There wasn't really anything to follow up with except more sillyness. Madge's meta doesn't really factor into this.

See above reply to Sabrar. Same questions apply.

@George: To me your notion that bessie might have expected some pre-game content from Madge is far-fetched but we can agree to disagree on that topic.

I don’t expect or condone any pre game content that is actual content.



Hi Prince J, welcome to the forum! We are a slow-paced group, and you’re not expected to respond to everything immediately. Many of us only post at certain times of day. For me it is after work (California time).


More in a bit.

[Court]

Anyway, anyone want to hold hands?

bessie and Court.PNG

I should be higher up on the Woof to Grrr scale…what is this load of barnacles, Bessie?

sorry.PNG

Ok, if you’re scum, I will be very sad because I greatly enjoyed those doggo pictures. I will assume in good faith you would not tug at my heart strings with pictures of cute doggos and will hold paws. Do I have to share the toy though?

Unvote

[madge]

TBH i didn't realise Fred was being serious in his opening post

And you know that people (including me) are seeing your woof-grr list and deciding that if they're in the bottom half they're in the grr pile

i know you put great stock in your confirmation post reads but the reason it was so quick from me was it was during my lunch break and i was excited because i haven't played in like a year

you know you're gonna tunnel and it's going to distract EVERYONE, likely for DAYS as i'm not voting you off for being bessie, people aren't voting me off for being me, and mafia isn't going to want this sideshow to end. and on D3 we'll all be saying "well $NAME just sat back and let Bessie argue with everyone else about Madge's meta, not alignment indicative"

[Sabrar]

I am surprised by bessie's answers and will contemplate them today (unfortunately have to go the office so don't expect anything soon).

[Freddino18]

@Freddino18: is this your first ever game of Mafia?

Yes

[Freddino18]

Fred's Town or milleriser, obviously.

Have you considered Stupid?

[madge]

Definitely not stupid, just inexperienced.

Look, I'm going to be around for an hour or so. So post questions all you like and I'll be happy to help you out.

[madge]

Here are some resources for you to consult at your leisure. They're for another forum, so ignore the section about how the particular forum works, but the stuff about playing / rules / abbreviations is all very relevant

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... e_to_Mafia

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Newbie_Guide

Here's a link to a variety of different pages with help guides of varying lengths and levels of usefulness to you: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ow_to_Play

[Freddino18]

Hi Freddino! If you are town, you should be posting all your thoughts. Don’t worry about being right or wrong about your reads. It’s an extremely rare skill to be able to read the game correctly from page one. What’s important is that we talk, because rereading early game content can help determine alignment late in the game.

If you are non-town, you should still be posting your thoughts so that you appear townie.

If you have any questions regarding general gameplay and rules, you can ask in thread and someone will answer truthfully. If you have any specific questions about your role, or questions that are alignment indicative, you should PM Seven. If you are not sure if a question is alignment indicative, you should PM Seven.

I really should not be doing this before bedtime then. Currently I have no thoughts on individuals because I'm quickly running out of spoons. I have watched some One NIght Ultimate Werewolf videos (how did predictive text know that???) and another game, I think it's called Town of Salem? Anyways, none of the strategies there seem to apply in this situation. Are we allowed to claim roles? There doesn't seem to be a final will system either, I assume if you die, that's it. The Salem game has alternate factions, but that seems to be made up of about 50-60% power roles, whereas this has a maximum of three, with only two guaranteed. Prince seems to be as lost as me, but I feel like that's more forum-related, and they supposedly have firsthand experience with "fast" games. Madge stinky, take a shower. @Heury What do you mean by "a question that can be asked to partner"?

The Millerizer role seems outrageously overpowered to me. If it does target in the day, the only way to permanently get rid of the role would be to eliminate their first target via voting, then have the Mafia eliminate them at night. I'd have to run numbers, but once it gets to a point where neither of the other two factions can eliminate them except by working together (unlikely), then they'd be guaranteed to win. I don't feel like saving this as a draft to check, but the only person immune to being Millered is the Godfather, and once the Miller finds out who that is, it makes it extremely easy for the Miller faction to indirectly coordinate the elimination of the Godfather. I believe the optimum strategy for a townie is to play townie, but wait to be Millered. Elimination of the Godfather becomes the only real goal, unless the rest of the Mafia is immune? Can the cop investigate themself? If so, I think the cop should play normally until day 3, then check themself. The goal would be to hunt innocents in the hopes of nailing the Godfather, and hope the rest of the Mafia makes a slip. This speculation all predicates itself on Madge being right here.

okay wait the milleriser targets during day, so that means we could start with 5-1 (miller/non-miller) and then during the day all of a sudden it's like "GG millers win" or whatever?

The only interesting faction strategy here seems to be the Mafia, and it doesn't differ from normal Mafia strategy in the slightest, except in the situation where the cop IS the Millerizer, but that seems impossible to know. Strategy for a Sherrifizer is a simplified set of both strategies, where they go from either end investigating and Millering individuals until they come across someone evil or someone immune, in which case they claim cop and call for a vote against the offending party.

Do people in the Miller faction know who else is in their faction? Do they know that they're also Millers?

Sorry for the shortform essay lol.

No elimination

Edit: Slight clarifications

Second edit: I did not realize that the Millerizer role is not "passed along" like the cop role. Everyone is significantly less fucked.

Third edit: Do Millers win with the Millerizer?

[madge]

> Are we allowed to claim roles?

You are, but you don't want to. I'm going to reveal some basic strategy for the mafia here, which I normally don't like to do on principle, but it's unfair for me to say stuff like "strategy is obvious" when you've never played before, as the purpose for that is to tell people who agree it's obvious that I've thought of the obvious things, so how will you learn if we're not clear?

So yeah, here's why you shouldn't claim your role:

- If you claim to be the milleriser, we will vote you off becauase the milleriser is a Bad Guy
- ditto for the godfather and hitman
- if you claim to be cop, mafia will kill you right away and so we won't learn whatever you learned as cop
- if you claim to be a universal backup, mafia will NOT kill you, so they are more likely to kill the cop, which is bad for us

(these are not necessarily 100% accurate/etc, or will reflect what will actually happen; you can claim things you aren't of course but you want to avoid that as town. basically if you're town, then as a newbie you should make sure you never lie but you don't volunteer information or answer information-leaking questions only one person wants to know the answer to. if you're scum, then I'm not helping you: read the guides I linked)

(Aside meant mostly for other players: Now I haven't thought too closely about what the backup system for the cop is going to do for us from a practical point of view. it seems that innocent results are very helpful early on and become less helpful later on. at the very least, the cop shouldn't claim before D2 (as D1 is all downside and no upside), and probably should hold off until D3/D4 depending.)

> @Heury What do you mean by "a question that can be asked to partner"?

The reason I thought you weren't mafia, and Heury seems to agree, is because if you were mafia you'd have a partner you could have spoken to before the game began, who would have answered your questions or at the very least made you feel a bit more comfortable with the game than you seem to be.

> [miller discourse]

If we're a miller, it doesn't mean we win with the milleriser. They're not a faction. the milleriser wins on their own only when everyone else is a miller (town or scum). so once they die (thanks to town or scum), we don't have to worry about them, just the carnage they've created with the millers. So we want to be done with them as soon as possible.

of course, our way of detecting them will be if they're trying to lead the vote away from the people they have already made into millers, which is something we can keep an eye out for. that said, mafia wants them gone just as badly (they can't win with mafia either), so we can kind of hope that mafia will take care of the problem for us.

You do raise a good point about the milleriser being able to identify the godfather: someone who leads the wagon onto the godfather all of a sudden will be suspicious.

[Freddino18]

Glad to know that not all of my logic was flawed lol.

[EGW]

Fred's Town or milleriser, obviously.

Have you considered Stupid?

Were you roleplaying as joker in your two beginning posts? Also, since this is your first game, I want you to give us 3 names that you find suspicious of being mafia, and give reasons why. Finally, why are you voting no elimination?

[somitomi]

Somitomi - the least idiotic person I know. Scum somi could've waited til night to ask scum partner rather than self proclaiming Madge's obvious claim

There's a lot of things I might question here, but I'm gonna be self-centered and ask about me, me me. What makes you think I'm not cunning enough to ask this publicly precisely to make people think I don't have a partner?

Somitomi just town for having Daria as pfp.

(this is obvi a RVS silly read, but I legit just finished watching all of Daria again recently so bias ahoy~)

Welcome, join me in the town core that we just formed. Anyone watching Daria can't be mafia.

I like this post, simply because Court's post there pinged me there, but for a different reason. I'm not entirely sure his vote was serious, and it seemed to be the odd one out when things were getting serious, yet he posted that and dipped while others kept talking. I agree with your point that Madge seems to be posturing from the beginning, and it's actually in line with my thinking that scum took advantage of the time they had with pregame to have a good start. I'm not entirely sure I see that there for Sabrar though, but I find his interruption more so anti-town than posturing.

I initially read that as a joke, but on reread I'm less sure what it was either.
@Prince J: could you comment on this please?

Interesting. How are we clashing?

We aren't right now, but being on the very Grrr end of your list didn't bode well.

There is no neutral line on that list. What makes you think I Grr read anyone from it? Or, more interestingly, what makes you think I don’t?

Does the neutral line really matter though? Whoever is at the bottom is the most Grrr to you regardless of where they are on some hypothetical absolute scale of woofness. As said before I regarded the list as a joke and didn't put much stock into it as an indication of where your head is.

Ninja'd by Freddino

[heuristically_alone]

No read is lame.

.
heury: I don't think I ever saw them using the point system. -1

Touche

[madge]

Also Fred you're not allowed to edit your posts under any circumstances. At all. You should never do it again because it's very frowned upon in Mafia. But nobody told you not to so don't sweat right now...

[heuristically_alone]

Sabrar - doesn't usually answer other's questions and of others without them responding right? -1

Can you elaborate on this?

It's purposefully disruptive. Slightly meta, but memory serves town sabrar giving others the opportunity to respond to their question before dropping his own insight.

what have i done to earn the spot on your grr list???????

Why do you think your placement on that list indicates I am Grr reading you? There’s no neutral line indicated on that list.

I see what you're doing and still I must ask. Why does it 'surprise' you that people have interpreted your reads list as such?

@Heury What do you mean by "a question that can be asked to partner"?

I mean mafia have a partner with whom to communicate.

Somitomi - the least idiotic person I know. Scum somi could've waited til night to ask scum partner rather than self proclaiming Madge's obvious claim

There's a lot of things I might question here, but I'm gonna be self-centered and ask about me, me me. What makes you think I'm not cunning enough to ask this publicly precisely to make people think I don't have a partner?

Then you have successfully hoodwinked me. What I admire about you is how open you are with what is on your mind so it's not that you're not cunning enough, it's that I suspect these things thoughts would've passed your mind during pregame with a scum partner and those thoughts cannot be contained.

[Court]

I can’t decide if there’s merit in explaining whether my initial vote was in jest or not.

You kind of want people to talk about this sort of thing at this point of the game, so I don’t see a real need to close off this avenue of speculation unless asked point blank about it.

[Court]

Reminder that I don’t have much time in the morning, and have more time at night. See y’all later today!