Secret Santa Game Thread

[osieorb18]

I'm more than happy to switch to bessie, but don't see it being useful to grow a wagon there until mid-Day if my overall gut judgment of their playstyle is correct.

[osieorb18]

vote bessie

just because the worst has a mini-wagon and id on't want to add to RVS

FWIW bessie's attitude to me is a null-tell. i think overall townie lean.

Wait, you're townleaning bessie in the same post that you're voting for them?

[madge]

are we out of RVS? I never can tell

this vote means "HOW DARE YOU, BESSIE" with a side of animal fries

[bessie]

Ok, where was I? You know I do miss how Smashboards numbers posts.

I wouldn't usually consider confirmation posts to be part of the game, given that they are prior to when the host has declared the game to start. That said, in this context, it is understandable to do so since there is no explicit rule stating they cannot be used, and they were after the role PMs had been sent out. It's just not where I would expect people to be looking.

We used to have a legendary player that could catch scum based on their confirmation posts. Someday I hope to ascend to his level.

Nah. I'm not trying to get Sniper to tell me anything about their role. I'm noting that if that's a softclaim, it's probably townie. Besides, if I was trying to solve on roles, why the hell would I put it in the thread as a wolf?

Is that a WOULD I DO THIS AS SCUM post??? [-1]

No, it's a legitimate question. I would assume... (goes and checks) and have checked and confirmed that "Players with chats can chat at any time.=" is in the OP. So if Mafia can chat at any time, why would they bother putting notes on claims in the thread?

No, it is totally a “would I do this as scum” post. Your literally said “why the hell would I put it in the thread as a wolf?” And you should reread my entire reaction (an subsequent posts), not just the part you quoted. I’m not pointing out that you are putting notes in thread. I am accusing you of rolefishing.

Why even note that it may be a soft claim unless you want to open discussion on it? The Snide Sniper is a newer player. Since you brought up the “would I do this as scum” argument, I will offer a response that I think the townie thing to do might be to ignore it and move on, not push for more information.

I noted that it might be a townie post. Especially with the information that Sniper is a newer player, I'm relatively townleaning them for that post.

Oh ok, here’s more of my response. So you’re saying that because you’re townreading Snide Sniper, you cant be rolefishing him? Please explain how one implies the other.

Interesting that Osie asked about my comment on Madge’s confirmation post, but he was not the least bit curious as to why I FoS’d him in the same post , and gave no reasons. He has engaged with me, but not as to why I find him suspicious. Though he has prodded for information as to why I find Madge suspicious.

I noted it, but I don't bother going on the defensive in that way. It's a waste of time in my experience. If you had expressed a case, it would be one thing, but you haven't, so I'm waiting for you to actually put content behind the statement. If you don't, then that's also something to note.

You only reply to cases, and not to player accusing you of being suspicious? Well I don’t do cases, however I will analyze your posts.

Post 1 : Confirm. [0]
Post 2 : Active lurking, contentless post. First post of game. [0]
Post 3 : RVS. Making a second post where the content could have been included in the previous post. [-1]
Post 4 : Since Osie denies this post contains a breadcrumb (see Posts 5 and 6) this is active lurking. Post for the sake of posting. [-1]
Post 5 : Denies Post 4 is a breadcrumb. [0]
Post 6 : Reply to the worst re Post 4, and buddying? [-1]
Post 7 : Rolefishing, opening the door to speculate on a possible Snide Sniper soft claim. Also making a second post where the content could have been included in the previous post (related thoughts). [-1]
Post 8 : Inside joke to WakeMeUp. Also makes an early association with WakeMeUp’s wolf meta. [Note I do not know what NUF is.] [-1]
Post 9 : Reply/joke to the worst. Possible buddying. [0]
Post 10 : Another double post that could have been part of the previous post. Ironically accuses the Worst of buddying WakeMeUp. [-1]
Post 11 : Reply/question to bessie re Madge’s confirmation post ( I responded to this in another post). This is a valid question. [+1] However, note that Osie does not question my FoS of him that was in the same post. [-1]
Post 12 : Joke reply to the worst with a vote for him. [0]
Post 13 : Reply/joke to WakeMeUp. Second attempt of association with this game and WakeMeUp’s wolf meta. [-1]
Post 14 : Reply/joke to the worst. [0]
Post 15 : Reply to WakeMeUp, game rules. [0]
Post 16 : Reply to bessie (I responded to this in another post). I like that Osie responded to my questions [+1], even if I find the answers suspicious (see here for reasons). [-1]
Post 17 : Reply to BoomFrog. Information. [0]
Post 18 : The post I’m responding to now. Some legit comments [+1], some deflection (see above). [-1]
Post 19 : Unvote. Early town scum list [+1] with reasons. [+1] Re content of post:

Bessie shading me for "active lurking" when there were less than 40 posts since start of game and 4 out of 9 players (Heury/Boom/Moody/Sniper) hadn't really posted significant content is bugging me even more than her looking at posts prior to game start for alignment, but I could see this being trying to draw blood from a stone like I sometimes do.

Ok, you’re seriously trying to tell me that I can’t have a read on you for your content, that I’m only supposed to have a read on you in relation to everyone else?? I’m looking for scum, not looking for the scummiest. And I get the feel from your posts that you are looking for the scummiest, not looking for scum. [-1]

Heh, IS THAT A TOWN CLAIM??? [-1]

Madge - I like their entrance, and bessie may have TMI'd them.

Explain.

The Snide Sniper - The way they entered the thread puts them on the townie edge of null and bessie may have TMI'd them.

Explain.

Scumlean:
moody7277 - Just a ping off of their entrance; it feels a bit forced.
bessie - I'm paranoid that bessie appears to be, either intentionally or not, trying to do one of the standard styles I've seen from scum of taking small things and blowing them out of proportion to form a series of tunnels instead of trying to read people organically. She could just be drawing blood out of a stone, but I need to see more to feel comfortable with that sort of a read.

Vote: moody7277

You have a ping from Moody, and a genuine scum read of me. Why aren’t you voting for me? [-1]

I liked Moody’s entrance and had a town feel from it, however, if Osie is scum I will look to this post. Osie has no reason to put a serious vote down on Moody; it feels forced. It could be early distancing. [-1]

Post 20 : Semi offer to switch to bessie.

I'm more than happy to switch to bessie, but don't see it being useful to grow a wagon there until mid-Day if my overall gut judgment of their playstyle is correct.

Your wording is interesting. You seem less concerned that I am scum than in trying to eliminate me. [-1]

Post 21 : Completely rational question. Welcome to the paradox that is Madge. [+1]

are we out of RVS? I never can tell

this vote means "HOW DARE YOU, BESSIE" with a side of animal fries

Yes. It appears Osie made a serious vote at the bottom of the previous page.

Sorry Heury that you missed RVS. I was waiting for you.


Vote: osieorb18

[osieorb18]

I’m not pointing out that you are putting notes in thread. I am accusing you of rolefishing.

And again, I ask "Why would someone just put out there in the thread that they think that someone's softclaim is town as a form of rolefishing? How does that signify rolefishing?" Asking about it would be one thing. But I didn't ask about it. Expressing interest in it beyond just "This is townie" would be another. But I didn't. I literally just said "This is townie."

It feels like you wanted to see rolefishing so you're creating motivation where none exists.

Oh ok, here’s more of my response. So you’re saying that because you’re townreading Snide Sniper, you cant be rolefishing him? Please explain how one implies the other.

Again, this feels like an intentional misinterpretation of my posts. I said that "All I said in this post was that the post I read felt town indicative." That does not equate to "If I townread someone I can't rolefish them."

First two misrepresentations are free. Another one, not so much.

You only reply to cases, and not to player accusing you of being suspicious?

Yep!

%%%
%%%

Bessie's Anti-Osie Malignment Wall:

Spoiler (Show/Hide)

Well I don’t do cases, however I will analyze your posts.

Post 1 : Confirm. [0]
Post 2 : Active lurking, contentless post. First post of game. [0]
Post 3 : RVS. Making a second post where the content could have been included in the previous post. [-1]
Post 4 : Since Osie denies this post contains a breadcrumb (see Posts 5 and 6) this is active lurking. Post for the sake of posting. [-1]
Post 5 : Denies Post 4 is a breadcrumb. [0]
Post 6 : Reply to the worst re Post 4, and buddying? [-1]
Post 7 : Rolefishing, opening the door to speculate on a possible Snide Sniper soft claim. Also making a second post where the content could have been included in the previous post (related thoughts). [-1]
Post 8 : Inside joke to WakeMeUp. Also makes an early association with WakeMeUp’s wolf meta. [Note I do not know what NUF is.] [-1]
Post 9 : Reply/joke to the worst. Possible buddying. [0]
Post 10 : Another double post that could have been part of the previous post. Ironically accuses the Worst of buddying WakeMeUp. [-1]
Post 11 : Reply/question to bessie re Madge’s confirmation post ( I responded to this in another post). This is a valid question. [+1] However, note that Osie does not question my FoS of him that was in the same post. [-1]
Post 12 : Joke reply to the worst with a vote for him. [0]
Post 13 : Reply/joke to WakeMeUp. Second attempt of association with this game and WakeMeUp’s wolf meta. [-1]
Post 14 : Reply/joke to the worst. [0]
Post 15 : Reply to WakeMeUp, game rules. [0]
Post 16 : Reply to bessie (I responded to this in another post). I like that Osie responded to my questions [+1], even if I find the answers suspicious (see here for reasons). [-1]
Post 17 : Reply to BoomFrog. Information. [0]
Post 18 : The post I’m responding to now. Some legit comments [+1], some deflection (see above). [-1]
Post 19 : Unvote. Early town scum list [+1] with reasons. [+1] Re content of post:

Bessie shading me for "active lurking" when there were less than 40 posts since start of game and 4 out of 9 players (Heury/Boom/Moody/Sniper) hadn't really posted significant content is bugging me even more than her looking at posts prior to game start for alignment, but I could see this being trying to draw blood from a stone like I sometimes do.

Ok, you’re seriously trying to tell me that I can’t have a read on you for your content, that I’m only supposed to have a read on you in relation to everyone else?? I’m looking for scum, not looking for the scummiest. And I get the feel from your posts that you are looking for the scummiest, not looking for scum. [-1]

Heh, IS THAT A TOWN CLAIM??? [-1]

Madge - I like their entrance, and bessie may have TMI'd them.

Explain.

The Snide Sniper - The way they entered the thread puts them on the townie edge of null and bessie may have TMI'd them.

Explain.

Scumlean:
moody7277 - Just a ping off of their entrance; it feels a bit forced.
bessie - I'm paranoid that bessie appears to be, either intentionally or not, trying to do one of the standard styles I've seen from scum of taking small things and blowing them out of proportion to form a series of tunnels instead of trying to read people organically. She could just be drawing blood out of a stone, but I need to see more to feel comfortable with that sort of a read.

Vote: moody7277

You have a ping from Moody, and a genuine scum read of me. Why aren’t you voting for me? [-1]

I liked Moody’s entrance and had a town feel from it, however, if Osie is scum I will look to this post. Osie has no reason to put a serious vote down on Moody; it feels forced. It could be early distancing. [-1]

Post 20 : Semi offer to switch to bessie.

I'm more than happy to switch to bessie, but don't see it being useful to grow a wagon there until mid-Day if my overall gut judgment of their playstyle is correct.

Your wording is interesting. You seem less concerned that I am scum than in trying to eliminate me. [-1]

Post 21 : Completely rational question. Welcome to the paradox that is Madge. [+1]

Ah I see you are trying to do a malignment wall, where a player, typically scum, goes into a PBPA another player's ISO with the intention of reading as much negative intent as they possibly can into the posts, with a few positives thrown in here and there for appearances. Here's the thing: I'm practiced at that. I used to do that a lot. And then realized, in part from feedback from several people, that assuming malice in people's posts, especially when it wasn't there, was not only not a worthwhile strategy but also wasn't very fun.

The thing with a malignment wall is that it's not only a gish-gallop, but it's a non-productive gish-gallop, since the logic behind it is intrinsically fallacious; it's irrational. So it's not really worth going through it point by point. And it often frustrates the hell out of the irrational player to just be dismissed as "you went into someone's posts with an intention for bias, and congrats, you succeeded at your bias." But that's all a malignment wall is. So as dismissive as it is, I'mma just handwave it away for what it is.

I do think the act of doing a malignment wall does push you over the edge for me though.

Vote: Bessie

[moody7277]

Unvote

Really creeped out by how easy that random vote turned into a wagon on them. Provisional townie points to the worst.

Misquoting Phantom Menace, "Random voting stage was short."

[boomfrog]

Hi <3 BoomFrog <3 have you missed me me me?

Of course, it's always a pleasure.

[boomfrog]

Wmu and The Worst, you both seem familiar with Osie's meta.

Didn't you play with me at some point on Smashboards? Maybe not.

We have, we played one game together as town but you were misyeeted D1 against my sole protests if I recall correctly. And you subbed in for scum in Vanilla Mafia but apparently decided to not catch up as it was a lot to catch up on and it was unlikely you could dig your slot out of it's hole, then you were eliminated by a redirected NE.

Anyway, I know you have the chops to either be the worst or the second best, so I'm not too concerned, I'm already confident about where we will end up. But I wanted to know what wmu and The Worst think.

Btw, my vote was not a random vote.

[boomfrog]

I’m not pointing out that you are putting notes in thread. I am accusing you of rolefishing.

And again, I ask "Why would someone just put out there in the thread that they think that someone's softclaim is town as a form of rolefishing? How does that signify rolefishing?" Asking about it would be one thing. But I didn't ask about it. Expressing interest in it beyond just "This is townie" would be another. But I didn't. I literally just said "This is townie."

It feels like you wanted to see rolefishing so you're creating motivation where none exists.

I'm going to nip this in the bud because I know Bessie and she won't convince you on this but her assessment of potential role fishing is legitimate. (Also importantly I won't get alignment info out of watching you two squabble about it, but it will flood the thread if not nipped)

Your post to TSS included a guess as to what he was crumbing, that it was a killing role. Done casually like that opens up TSS to confirm or deny that he was crumbing a killing role. Wolf!osie gets info on the category of town!TSS's role and it can look unintentional. Do you not see that discussing someone's role at all opens up the chance to leak info?

@TSS obviously you should make zero comment about your role or if you were making a crumb. Don't confirm or deny.

[bessie]

And again, I ask "Why would someone just put out there in the thread that they think that someone's softclaim is town as a form of rolefishing? How does that signify rolefishing?" Asking about it would be one thing. But I didn't ask about it. Expressing interest in it beyond just "This is townie" would be another. But I didn't. I literally just said "This is townie."

Ok. You didn’t ask a direct question (Hey Sniper are you a BOMB??), however, you threw out an observation and tried to provoke a discussion (“ Softclaiming a killing role is... townie?”).

It feels like you wanted to see rolefishing so you're creating motivation where none exists.

Deflection.

Oh ok, here’s more of my response. So you’re saying that because you’re townreading Snide Sniper, you cant be rolefishing him? Please explain how one implies the other.

Again, this feels like an intentional misinterpretation of my posts. I said that "All I said in this post was that the post I read felt town indicative." That does not equate to "If I townread someone I can't rolefish them."

First two misrepresentations are free. Another one, not so much.

The more you pretend that you don’t know what rolefishing is, the more convinced I am that I am correct.

Interesting how whenever you reply to me you brush of my content as just wrong, and you don’t even try to figure out my point of view.

You only reply to cases, and not to player accusing you of being suspicious?

Yep!

Ok. How very townie of you.

Ah I see you are trying to do a malignment wall, where a player, typically scum, goes into a PBPA another player's ISO with the intention of reading as much negative intent as they possibly can into the posts, with a few positives thrown in here and there for appearances. Here's the thing: I'm practiced at that. I used to do that a lot. And then realized, in part from feedback from several people, that assuming malice in people's posts, especially when it wasn't there, was not only not a worthwhile strategy but also wasn't very fun.

Hahaha, so... I’m scumreading you, so it must be malice, not simply wrong? Which one of us is the one creating malice in other people’s posts, and which one of us is trying to figure out the game? [I don’t know what PBPA is.]

The thing with a malignment wall is that it's not only a gish-gallop, but it's a non-productive gish-gallop, since the logic behind it is intrinsically fallacious; it's irrational. So it's not really worth going through it point by point. And it often frustrates the hell out of the irrational player to just be dismissed as "you went into someone's posts with an intention for bias, and congrats, you succeeded at your bias." But that's all a malignment wall is. So as dismissive as it is, I'mma just handwave it away for what it is.

And I’mma gonna quote this post when you flip scum.

I do think the act of doing a malignment wall does push you over the edge for me though.

Vote: Bessie

Nice you found a reason to move your serious vote off of moody.

Misquoting Phantom Menace, "Random voting stage was short."

Yep it’s over. Where are your snap reads?


Ninja'd by BoomFrog while I was typing this out.

[osieorb18]

you threw out an observation and tried to provoke a discussion (“ Softclaiming a killing role is... townie?”).

More misrep. I wasn't "trying to provoke a discussion". I was stating, very straight-forward, that I thought it might be townie, but I wasn't certain. Given what I'd seen of Sniper (and that prior to anyone saying anything in the thread about it, I thought they were one of the most experienced players on the site, an impression which takes some time to shift away from), I would figure that they would understand that this is just "I find that post townie" and not "Here's an invitation to claim their role", as any reasonable person would not assume it to be the latter.

It feels like you wanted to see rolefishing so you're creating motivation where none exists.

Deflection.

No u.

Oh ok, here’s more of my response. So you’re saying that because you’re townreading Snide Sniper, you cant be rolefishing him? Please explain how one implies the other.

Again, this feels like an intentional misinterpretation of my posts. I said that "All I said in this post was that the post I read felt town indicative." That does not equate to "If I townread someone I can't rolefish them."

First two misrepresentations are free. Another one, not so much.

The more you pretend that you don’t know what rolefishing is, the more convinced I am that I am correct.

Interesting how whenever you reply to me you brush of my content as just wrong, and you don’t even try to figure out my point of view.

I'm not pretending to not know what rolefishing is. Again, you're misrepresenting my posts. I made clear that the intention of my post had nothing to do with finding out the role, something which you "brushed off as just wrong". My intention. What, are you gaslighting me now? I know what my intention was. I also know that regardless of it being myself or someone else, you have come into this discussion with a bunch of false assumptions and any time it's been pointed out that your assumptions are false, you've handwaved it away.

I would love to have a discussion on your point of view, but any such discussion requires us to come into the discussion in equally good faith with an equal understanding of the various posts in question, and given that you've been constantly and blatantly misrepresenting me, I don't see that happening. I want to believe that this is just you feeling like you've caught onto something, but it honestly just feels intentional as a way to irritate people.

You only reply to cases, and not to player accusing you of being suspicious?

Yep!

Ok. How very townie of you.

I haven't worried too much about people throwing "FoS Osie" or a naked "Vote Osie" into the thread for many games now.

Ah I see you are trying to do a malignment wall, where a player, typically scum, goes into a PBPA another player's ISO with the intention of reading as much negative intent as they possibly can into the posts, with a few positives thrown in here and there for appearances. Here's the thing: I'm practiced at that. I used to do that a lot. And then realized, in part from feedback from several people, that assuming malice in people's posts, especially when it wasn't there, was not only not a worthwhile strategy but also wasn't very fun.

Hahaha, so... I’m scumreading you, so it must be malice, not simply wrong? Which one of us is the one creating malice in other people’s posts, and which one of us is trying to figure out the game? [I don’t know what PBPA is.]

No. Again, I didn't say that. Again, you're misrepresenting my words. In this case you're even explicitly stating that you don't know what I meant, and that you're applying a meaning of your own construction.

I said very specifically "A malignment wall [is a technique] where a player, typically scum, goes [Post-By-Post Analyzing (PBPA) through] another player's ISO [with a preformed bias], and then throws in positives here and there for appearances."

You went through every one of my posts and said "I find this negative" over and over again. That's not hard to do.

The thing with a malignment wall is that it's not only a gish-gallop, but it's a non-productive gish-gallop, since the logic behind it is intrinsically fallacious; it's irrational. So it's not really worth going through it point by point. And it often frustrates the hell out of the irrational player to just be dismissed as "you went into someone's posts with an intention for bias, and congrats, you succeeded at your bias." But that's all a malignment wall is. So as dismissive as it is, I'mma just handwave it away for what it is.

And I’mma gonna quote this post when you flip scum.

Ya know, after over a decade of forum moderation, I can pretty much tell that a person won't learn anything from me saying "What you're doing is wrong/unenjoyable/illogical" when they repeatedly double down. It's like talking to a typical anti-vaxxer or Q-Anon believer. They're convinced that they cannot ever be in the wrong as a person, even when acting obnoxious and illogical in the process of trying to make their argument.

I do think the act of doing a malignment wall does push you over the edge for me though.

Vote: Bessie

Nice you found a reason to move your serious vote off of moody.

What serious vote? A vote with less than 50 posts in the game on someone who had made one post? My vote for you is my first serious vote this game.

[osieorb18]

I'm going to nip this in the bud because I know Bessie and she won't convince you on this but her assessment of potential role fishing is legitimate. (Also importantly I won't get alignment info out of watching you two squabble about it, but it will flood the thread if not nipped)

Your post to TSS included a guess as to what he was crumbing, that it was a killing role. Done casually like that opens up TSS to confirm or deny that he was crumbing a killing role. Wolf!osie gets info on the category of town!TSS's role and it can look unintentional. Do you not see that discussing someone's role at all opens up the chance to leak info?

@TSS obviously you should make zero comment about your role or if you were making a crumb. Don't confirm or deny.

I was not aware of TSS's experience level and given that I thought they were one of the most experienced players in the thread, I thought that they would know that was not remotely intended as rolefishing and instead, as I've clearly expressed multiple times, as a statement of a townping in regards to evaluating their alignment.

You can see that I was not aware of TSS's experience level given that the first person to mention it was Bessie, AFTER some discussion of imaginary rolefishing, 28 posts and 2.5 hours AFTER I had posted a post which still, despite how much Bessie may try to gaslight me, was literally just expression of a soft town ping on TSS.

[osieorb18]

Wmu and The Worst, you both seem familiar with Osie's meta.

Didn't you play with me at some point on Smashboards? Maybe not.

We have, we played one game together as town but you were misyeeted D1 against my sole protests if I recall correctly. And you subbed in for scum in Vanilla Mafia but apparently decided to not catch up as it was a lot to catch up on and it was unlikely you could dig your slot out of it's hole, then you were eliminated by a redirected NE.

Anyway, I know you have the chops to either be the worst or the second best, so I'm not too concerned, I'm already confident about where we will end up. But I wanted to know what wmu and The Worst think.

Btw, my vote was not a random vote.

"The worst or second best?"

... What?

The worst, WakeMeUp, and Madge are way better players than me as either alignment. Not even close. The worst has occasionally suggested otherwise over the years but both he and I know its a joke. I would have bessie on that list, but the only skilled players that I've seen act similarly to how she has this game have been people who would regularly tread the line of acceptable behaviour in games and who were playing very badly as scum due to personal reasons, so I don't even know where to classify her, as I didn't believe that fit who she was as a person.

I host games, I don't play them very often. If I recall correctly, out of maybe 40 games in which I've ever played, I've been a relevant contributor as part of the winning team... maybe 6 times? Definitely no more than about a dozen. And I think I've rolled scum about 6 times as well, out of which I've probably won twice? The vast majority of the time, I have been subbed out, modkilled, or vigged by someone with a personal vendetta when I've rolled scum, tbh. I'm active and I have some experience, so I can play decently as town, but my scum game is mostly non-existent.

I'm not likely to be the worst player in the thread because as far as I can tell I do have more experience than at least a few people, but I'm pretty firmly in the middle overall. At best, I'd probably be the fourth best, and even then, it's a crapshoot as to whether I'm actually better than you, moody, or bessie.

[the worst]

Woo! Game on!

Vote osieorb18

Wmu and The Worst, you both seem familiar with Osie's meta. Are they always like this? Or do they usually play more townie?

Also, as to maximum post count, if you post lots of low calorie posts then busy players will have trouble keeping up with the game. Do with that information what you will.

RL note: over had unexpected family stuff come up. I should be fine but will be more sporadic in posting.

I'd call this like, the most deadass on-brand osie of all the deadass on-brand osies.

[the worst]

Osie saw the thing I saw.

[the worst]

Interesting that Osie asked about my comment on Madge’s confirmation post, but he was not the least bit curious as to why I FoS’d him in the same post , and gave no reasons. He has engaged with me, but not as to why I find him suspicious. Though he has prodded for information as to why I find Madge suspicious.

Could you expand a bit on why that struck you as alignment indicative

[the worst]

vote: bessie w/e good push

[the worst]

are we out of RVS? I never can tell

this vote means "HOW DARE YOU, BESSIE" with a side of animal fries

"Out of rvs" is such a flexible term right
like osie/bessie definitely qualifies as more interesting than rvs
but the game only really progresses when people do things to make it progress so it's worth dragging them both over coals and getting others to weigh in

[the worst]

I think expressing a null/town read on someone and then voting them is the most sensible thing I've seen in a game of mafia.

also i gotta pocket madge to make up for last game.

[the worst]

Unvote

Really creeped out by how easy that random vote turned into a wagon on them. Provisional townie points to the worst.

Misquoting Phantom Menace, "Random voting stage was short."

Why unvote here? Does osie vs. bessie not interest you at all? What do you think of madge or boom?

[osieorb18]

like osie/bessie definitely qualifies as more interesting than rvs

More interesting? Maybe. Definitely less enjoyable. I suppose this is probably the second or third cringiest, most blatant series of misrepresentations formed into a push on me I've seen outside of games with the twins.

[osieorb18]

Worst's last two posts, given their nature, feel more like an attempt to pocket me than to pocket Madge, lol.

Hmm. Townlean? Maybe reconsidering on D2.

[osieorb18]

That series of posts is so classic Town!worst but I don't know that it's out of their scumrange...

[osieorb18]

Anyways, heading to bed, but bessie misrepping me non-stop just isn't fun to play with.

Like, what the heck is this progression?

Bessie goes:

FoS osieorb18

I make 5 posts in the thread, one of which is asking if she's considering a pre-game post to be alignment-relevant. I ignore the naked "FoS" statement as it's not important. Especially that early, as far as I know, it's a joke.

Bessie THEN changes her tune:

I’m considering as to whether Madge’s post is alignment indicative. As I am considering every post and whether it is alignment indicative. Are you not doing the same?

"Osie's not sorting."

Madge’s is a post to make a post, asking a question to which she already knows the answer. It is active lurking, as is most of your content thus far. Except for your post fishing for my opinion, and this bit of role fishing

"Osie's active lurking" - I'd had the most posts as someone being social in RVS but also trying to shift us relatively quickly out of RVS.

"Osie's fishing for my opinion" - I asked whether or not she was serious in pushing something that happened before the game started. What a horrendously negative representation of a reasonable question.

"Osie's rolefishing" - Already discussed as false.

Bessie THEN shifts to accusing me of not engaging with her case. When I've explicitly addressed what she's said of her case. She also follows up her "this is rolefishing push." A classic scummy move as well, to wait for someone to object to a point that has very little explanation and THEN explain it, otherwise having a statement to which nobody has objected to that they can cite later on.

Why even note that it may be a soft claim unless you want to open discussion on it? The Snide Sniper is a newer player. Since you brought up the “would I do this as scum” argument, I will offer a response that I think the townie thing to do might be to ignore it and move on, not push for more information.

Interesting that Osie asked about my comment on Madge’s confirmation post, but he was not the least bit curious as to why I FoS’d him in the same post , and gave no reasons. He has engaged with me, but not as to why I find him suspicious. Though he has prodded for information as to why I find Madge suspicious.

Again, I respond quickly, thoroughly, and entirely.

%%%
%%%

This is already a TERRIBLE progression to have on someone; the case is shifting when called out. She came into the game with the intention to miselim me, so by hook or by crook, she's gotta scumread me! And in typical gish-gallop style, bessie has already called me out for not addressing each individual point made in her posts.

Bessie THEN responds to me explaining the intention behind my posts with "No, you're wrong" in regards to statements that are explicitly different from my actual posts. In fact, I feel like the number of misrepresentations bessie has made of my posts is through the roof, and there's not even 75, let alone 100 posts in this game!

In fact, I'm just going to make a list of misrepresentations in bessie's posts. Note that I'm not going through bessie's posts looking for anything I can declare scummy, as she did with my posts. No. I'm specifically pointing out the individual instances in which she misrepresents what I have said.

• "your post fishing for my opinion" - My post asking if she's considering a specific pre-game post to be alignment-indicative.
• "this bit of role fishing" - A post in which I declared someone else's post to look townie to me.
• "Is that a WOULD I DO THIS AS SCUM post??? - Of note, my statement was reiterating "I declared someone else's post to look townie." The follow-up statement was that openly trying to solve on roles is much more likely to go in thread as town. Bessie twists that latter statement into "Osie's claiming that he's role-solving and wouldn't make that post as scum."
• "He has engaged with me, but not as to why I find him suspicious." - Again, misrepresentation. I've already asked about her reasoning.
• "No, it is totally..." - Wait, so I gave you my intention but you're gaslighting my intention to be something else? What? Especially when admitting that her own posts were misinterpreted, to not present the self-awareness that she might have misinterpreted, were she town, reeks of scummy agenda.
• "So you’re saying that because you’re townreading Snide Sniper, you cant be rolefishing him" - No, that's not remotely what I said. I reiterated AGAIN that my initial post about Sniper was "This might be a townie post." and nothing more. A statement which bessie still just stubbornly keeps on refusing to acknowledge.
• Bessie then makes a malignment wall which is a waste of time for me to delve into. But I'll grab a few select points (look out for bessie saying that if I don't go through the whole thing, I haven't addressed it satisfactorily).
• "Active lurking" + "Post for the sake of posting." + "Inside joke" + "Could have been part of the previous post" - Honestly, this mostly just sounds like bessie trying to restrict me to her playstyle. But taking this with a grain of salt, especially as bessie does not have much if any experience with me as a player, and would not know that I'm a social player first and foremost, especially early on in the game, and benefit of the doubt that bessie might be town (though I highly doubt it), it's STILL quite a series of assumptions of malice, and I'm inclined to believe that she's just actively trying to paint it as being there.
• "you're seriously trying to tell me that I can't have a read on you for your content" - No, again, I didn't say that. I said that it was bugging me that she was representing me as "active lurking" when the number of serious content posts in the game were at best still less than half of the posts made, and out of the players who had posted, myself, WakeMeUp, or bessie were really the only players who could have been considered to have made ANY posts which were serious content. Keep in mind that we're 40 posts into the game at this point. Bessie had made fewer posts (even breaking her walls up) than I had made serious content posts.
• "IS THAT A TOWN CLAIM???" - What? I can't tell what this is referring to and even if I could, there's nothing in that quote that remotely resembles saying nakedly "I'm town".
• "less concerned that I am scum than in trying to eliminate me" - Unexplained (of course), but also misrepresenting "I scumread this player but want to see more" as "I want to eliminate this player regardless of their alignment."
• "Osie made a serious vote [so we're out of RVS]" - I made a readlist in the first 50 posts of the game. It's a recurring meme in many of my games. The vote on moody is at best half-serious, but realistically is still messing around in RVS.
• "tried to provoke a discussion" - Again, not the point, but even if a discussion was to be provoked, it would be a discussion about whether or not that post was townie, not one about Sniper's role.
• "Deflection." - Oh hey, I can use bessie's method too! What was it? Oh yeah. "You’re seriously trying to tell me that I can’t have a read on you for your content, [as long as it is about me]?"
• "you pretend that you don't know what rolefishing is" - WHERE? This is quite a statement to make and not backup with, y'know, evidence or explanation.
• "so... I’m scumreading you, so it must be malice, not simply wrong" - Not what was said or even implied. I explicitly called out the methodology as scummy and unenjoyable. I said nothing in that post about her read (even though it is wrong, likely for scummy reasons).
• "Nice you found a reason to move your serious vote off of moody." - I stated over the course of my post that another misrepresentation would lead to results. She even quoted that post. And then she's framing the vote as "You found a reason to move your serious vote" (not a serious vote) "off of moody [to me]" (completely separately from any addressing of the reasoning).

Phew that's a lot. Across 4 posts, she has over 16 misrepresentations of my posts. That's not even TRYING to come into the game in good faith.

Bessie's just scum here. And like, if she was Town, this push is SO wrong, SO laden with bad faith, SO obnoxiously misrepresenting, that it would probably be better for us if she was not playing the game.

[the worst]

Worst's last two posts, given their nature, feel more like an attempt to pocket me than to pocket Madge, lol.

Hmm. Townlean? Maybe reconsidering on D2.

That's the secret, osie dearest, if you pocket everyone in every game they'll never catch u