Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[Morgan]

Oh, I just remembered a Thought.

Sabrar being unwilling to claim at the first deadline means that scum are unlikely to have fakeclaims. If he had one and didn't use it, then lol.

[the worst]

cracking me up

vote: Morgan (sorry for the spoilers)

[Morgan]

I'm not really getting anything from ISO'ing. All of Math's/Sabrar's/Seven's posts feel like white noise.

I'll try again tomorrow, maybe do a broader search of the thread.

I really want to see Michelle's catch-up.

[Morgan]

Would also like Wam to exist more.

[bessie]

Wam is V/LA until Tuesday lunchtime

@mods is this lunchtime Wam time or Osie time?

I may not be the best scum hunter but anyone who actively makes it harder to do so and refuses to address the thread and work together is a great elim.

I feel that the problem with this viewpoint is that it’s not beneficial to the game, in that you declaring this discourages scum hunting for the remainder of the day. Like the situation with SuperJedi on Day 1, I didn’t oppose his elimination because he is a low contributor and is not really scum hunting, although at least he provided an updated town-scum list. But it was an easy elimination to sit on all day and stall the game, and with a policy elimination you don't even need to try to determine someone's alignment. As I asked Sabrar in this post , so SuperJedi unhelpful, but is it malicious and does that make him scum? [Note: I am pondering Sabrar’s response here in light of his flip.] So with Seven, ok you don’t like his gambit, but was it malicious and does that make him scum?

Removing someone for gameplay reasons (like lurking or having nonsensical posting) can be a valid reason, and one I have used myself many times. I don’t want to be at endgame and have to choose between a scummy townie and a townie scum, and a bunch of non-posting players. But we’re early enough in the game that we should be scum hunting, not resigning ourselves to policy eliminations so early in the day.


@Madge, see above.

Oh, I just remembered a Thought.

Sabrar being unwilling to claim at the first deadline means that scum are unlikely to have fakeclaims. If he had one and didn't use it, then lol.

I never understood the importance some players put on safeclaims. You are assuming that powers must be alignment indicative, which I feel in this game would not be cut and dried. If Sabrar wanted to claim he could have just claimed his real role (and Sabrar could have come up with a fake claim were he motivated to do so).

cracking me up

vote: Morgan (sorry for the spoilers)

Your reasons? (and what’s with the spoiler comment?)

[madge]

I trust you, bessie.

unvote

FWIW I'm not particularly happy to do this but I also have to agree that Seven is just being Seven and if I don't like the way Seven plays that just means that I don't like it, doesn't mean Seven is scum.

(If Seven flips scum tho I am going to policy lim liars so hard FOREVER)

I agree that we were told a massclaim won't help town so either scum has some mechanic that aids them in the event of a massclaim or they have a safeclaim.

sabrar's role is interesting because it's not the way scum would want to target a bonus kill. it's almost a pity we didn't end up with sabrar for a few more days becuase we could see who his NK targets were and maybe work out which days had scum as the wagon. depending on what other roles are out there i think i'd find it a little scummy but not scummy enough to matter.

but anyway, yeah, I will trust wisp + bessie. Seven won't get my vote today unless they do something heinous.

[madge]

don't want to lose my notes, if people can pls let me know if i missed anything

-----------------
Madge's Notepad
-----------------

BESSIE'S READS SO FAR TODAY:
Morgan scummy
Seven not scummy
(no reads for a while but I'm keeping eye out)

WISP'S READS FROM YESTERDAY:
Wants to kill Jedi (seems to want town to vig)
Last will was that they think wake/morgan/bessie/seven contains at most 1 scum
Previously had a scumread on moody that they kind of abandoned

CLAIM RELATED NOTES:
the worst visited wisp (claimed by Seven, recanted)
mathblade blocked the worst (claimed by mathblade, confirmed by the worst)
the worst doesn't have a targeting role (claimed by the worst)

[Morgan]

I may not be the best scum hunter but anyone who actively makes it harder to do so and refuses to address the thread and work together is a great elim.

I feel that the problem with this viewpoint is that it’s not beneficial to the game, in that you declaring this discourages scum hunting for the remainder of the day. Like the situation with SuperJedi on Day 1, I didn’t oppose his elimination because he is a low contributor and is not really scum hunting, although at least he provided an updated town-scum list. But it was an easy elimination to sit on all day and stall the game, and with a policy elimination you don't even need to try to determine someone's alignment. As I asked Sabrar in this post , so SuperJedi unhelpful, but is it malicious and does that make him scum? [Note: I am pondering Sabrar’s response here in light of his flip.] So with Seven, ok you don’t like his gambit, but was it malicious and does that make him scum?

Removing someone for gameplay reasons (like lurking or having nonsensical posting) can be a valid reason, and one I have used myself many times. I don’t want to be at endgame and have to choose between a scummy townie and a townie scum, and a bunch of non-posting players. But we’re early enough in the game that we should be scum hunting, not resigning ourselves to policy eliminations so early in the day.

This does a good job of articulating how I feel about Math's push. Whether it comes from scum- or town-Math, I'm unsure, but I really don't like it.

[Morgan]

I never understood the importance some players put on safeclaims. You are assuming that powers must be alignment indicative, which I feel in this game would not be cut and dried. If Sabrar wanted to claim he could have just claimed his real role (and Sabrar could have come up with a fake claim were he motivated to do so).

No, it's the opposite. If they don't have fakeclaims, it means their actual claims *aren't* alignment-indicative. I don't know why Sabrar refused to claim - he probably just panicked because he was a super last-minute wagon.

[the worst]

@bessie
i don't think Morgan is interested in solving the game. When they do give opinions, I'm not convinced that they're actually saying stuff that they believe is true.

Seven is an easy player to have an opinion on right now. I was think the way Morgan is remaining as noncommittal is a very safe approach which is very easy for scum to take. When I compare Morgan to active players who I townread (you & Madge are a very good core and also a very good point of reference), its actually quite striking how little interest Morgan seems to have in sorting Seven.

I'm also slightly concerned that Morgan's posts are worded in a way that comes off looking better if Seven flips town. That's auxiliary/moon logic though.

[Morgan]

I kind of want to assume scum don't have daychat (or they really were all absent from the thread), because I can't imagine them *not* encouraging Sabrar to claim vigilante. Like........really.

[Morgan]

@bessie
i don't think Morgan is interested in solving the game. When they do give opinions, I'm not convinced that they're actually saying stuff that they believe is true.

Seven is an easy player to have an opinion on right now. I was think the way Morgan is remaining as noncommittal is a very safe approach which is very easy for scum to take. When I compare Morgan to active players who I townread (you & Madge are a very good core and also a very good point of reference), its actually quite striking how little interest Morgan seems to have in sorting Seven.

I'm also slightly concerned that Morgan's posts are worded in a way that comes off looking better if Seven flips town. That's auxiliary/moon logic though.

I think Seven is more likely to be town than MathBlade. I just unvoted to try and avoid confirmation bias but it's not really working.

C'est la vie.

[madge]

Daychat is my biggest fear in games so I checked this when we started and:

Players with chats can chat at any time.

[Morgan]

I will admit I have little interest in mafia these days. I intended to quit forever, but here I am, and I am very much enjoying not putting in as much effort as I used to [without compromising my team's ability to win, of course].

As for not being interested in solving the game, 1) ok, why not engage with me before assuming scum who doesn't care? and 2) I don't really have a concrete worldview. I want to flip Math because I think the way Sabrar barely pushed on him smells like a scumbuddy and I hate the way he's flip-flopping on you, I laid out what I've been thinking regarding his slot, and I got like 0 engagement from anyone except Math. I also want to flip *you* for the Jedi thing, but I dialed that back a bit because I didn't want to assume too much about the setup, though since you'r the one who put it out there, I am wondering how you can get an alignment check on Jedi without an active ability.

I still think most, if not all, of the Sabrar wagon is made up of villagers, because I can't comprehend an active member of the mafia either not trying to save Sabrar's kill, or encouraging him to claim vigilante, but that goes into assuming things about the setup.

[Morgan]

Daychat is my biggest fear in games so I checked this when we started and:

Players with chats can chat at any time.

lmaoooo, thanks.

[Morgan]

Yeah I am now 99% convinced that all the other mafia were offline or lurking when Sabrar died.

[Morgan]

Sabrar (6/8) - bessie, wam, SuperJedi224, Morgan, Wisp, xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx
SuperJedi224 (5/8) - madge, the worst, Sabrar, MathBlade, moody7277
Wisp (1/8) - Seven
moody7277 (1/8) - Suzaku

Kill [the worst, MathBlade, moody, Suzaku], achieve victory.

Vote MathBlade

[the worst]

Morgan, can you talk through why you seem to be approaching this conversation from a pov where Seven is town but you're also not particularly motivsted to defend him or explain the read? Any way I try to spin this, it looks like you're approaching this from a scum perspective.

Doesn't really tell me whether you're s/s with seven or scum to seven's town (I'd lean the latter), but like. Give me some reasoning on your reads please because it feels like you're coasting and trying to have reads which ~look good~ rather than sharing sincere thoughts about the game which you truly believe.


Edit: I can see you've posted since this but my lunch break is over, will be back later.

[Morgan]

Morgan, can you talk through why you seem to be approaching this conversation from a pov where Seven is town but you're also not particularly motivsted to defend him or explain the read? Any way I try to spin this, it looks like you're approaching this from a scum perspective.

Doesn't really tell me whether you're s/s with seven or scum to seven's town (I'd lean the latter), but like. Give me some reasoning on your reads please because it feels like you're coasting and trying to have reads which ~look good~ rather than sharing sincere thoughts about the game which you truly believe.


Edit: I can see you've posted since this but my lunch break is over, will be back later.

smh

In what way do they -look good-? Which reads are you talking about specifically?

For one, Seven doesn't need my defense. We're nowhere near close to an elim.

Secondly, I don't really have a strong read on Seven, or at least one I feel like I can defend in good faith. I feel more strongly that MathBlade is mafia, and that the push on Seven isn't bussing. Why don't you look over my Math read/content and get back to me, since it's basically one of the few things I feel confident about and you either overlooked, ignored, or don't think is worth anything?

[bessie]

@Madge, I don’t object to you voting Seven if you actually find his content scummy, but I don’t want to quit scum hunting this early in the day for a policy elimination. The early game content is a way find scum in the late game, so people need to keep talking.

No, it's the opposite. If they don't have fakeclaims, it means their actual claims *aren't* alignment-indicative. I don't know why Sabrar refused to claim - he probably just panicked because he was a super last-minute wagon.

Sabrar doesn’t panic easily. Reread his end of day content with the assumption that he is being intentional not hasty in his choice of words.

I kind of want to assume scum don't have daychat (or they really were all absent from the thread), because I can't imagine them *not* encouraging Sabrar to claim vigilante. Like........really.

Interesting. I know for sure this was discussed because it was by me. And hey it was in a response to you!

Not including the latest Jedi post, since it didn't exist when bessie asked for my Jedi thoughts.

All I can really see here is potential scum posting for the sake of posting. The last one here is awful because despite thinking deadline was sooner, Jedi doesn't seem to be very forthcoming in participating. And by "participating" I mean actually trying to help town win, not just post filler.

I asked about the opening post in particular because it was regarding opening posts that started this line of questioning. SuperJedi’s opening post appeared me as someone looking for a real wagon to jump on (as opposed to RVS). But I agree the last post you quoted was the most suspicious, and reinforces my thoughts that he’s just looking for an elimination, any elimination. I would normally be all over this, but the reason I am still pondering it and not voting is because of day chat. Either his partner(s) (1) aren’t coaching him, (2) are also inexperienced, (3) are absent, or (4) he doesn’t have any.

I will admit I have little interest in mafia these days. I intended to quit forever, but here I am, and I am very much enjoying not putting in as much effort as I used to [without compromising my team's ability to win, of course].

We’re pretty laid back here and think people should play in a way that they enjoy playing. That’s why we put up with Madge.

And I have the rest of your post in my mind.

Yeah I am now 99% convinced that all the other mafia were offline or lurking when Sabrar died.

I think there was scum besides Sabrar on SuperJedi’s wagon.

[Morgan]

I don't think I read that post, rip. My bad!

[Morgan]

For that matter, I'm wondering how the worst can be blocked at all if he doesn't have an active ability.

[Morgan]

(Not my intention to rolefish, but if you put out information that feels contradictory, I'm going to question it.)

[Morgan]

Oh, never mind, he said he has an active ability but not a targeting one. I...don't have a clear understanding of the difference, especially when another player is involved.

That's all the spam from me, sorry.

[Morgan]

Never mind, I get it now and I'm probably a dumdum. Please ignore most of that.