Songs of Our Times Mafia Game Thread - Game Over

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

You made me read the op

Now if you excuse me, i have to sleep, i will be here in the morning.

[Wam]

I don't see from Math the desire to search for the truth. How is this a towny approach?
Demanding for my targets means he wants to know how my role works and i will not reveal this

I also want your targets is that enough?

[somitomi]

Votecount

Votee (Votes/Elimination) - Voter(s)
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

MathBlade (3/4) - xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx, madge, moody7277
moody7277 (1/4) - the worst
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx (1/4) - MathBlade

Not Voting (3): Seven, SuperJedi224, Wam

Day 3 Elimination Deadline will be 10 AM PST on December 9th.

Reminder that it takes 2 votes to eliminate by plurality and 4 to eliminate by majority.

AC3.3

SuperJedi224 - 3
moody7277 - 8
MathBlade - 23
the worst - 5
Seven - 24
Wam - 20
xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx - 10
madge - 4

Third Cutoff

[Wam]

32 hours and the thread is dead....

[Seven]

I disagree but I think we have exhausted this line of discussion

I know you feel we've exhausted it, but I do think it would be a good idea to be on the same page as all my town reads. I don't want to miselim, so if there's disagreement in interpretation, we should try to resolve it. With that in mind, could you explain why you disagree? It's my understanding is that in the post I quoted, he is saying that because there are two people alive that he has blocked, that in order for Madge's fears to come to fruition—that is, he in lylo with someone he blocked the night before—scum!him would have to kill someone each night and (e.g. someone he previously blocked/cleared) while blocking a new person to keep up the pretense that he is town. This implies that at the time of this post he was under the impression that scum can block and kill in the same night. And suggest to me that his later misunderstanding that scum couldn't block/kill in the same night wasn't genuine.

At which point in this chain of thought do you disagree?

[Wam]

I need to go back and iso to clear that up.

Which will take a while....

Whilst I'm waiting wmu I would like your targets please.

[Seven]

@WMU what are your thoughts on Moody? Also what are your thoughts on MBs tone?
@Wam what are your thoughts on Moody?

[Wam]

Moody in my opinion is too chill to be scum. But by POE is in my bottom 3/4

[SuperJedi224]

I can agree with that

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

I can finally play, sorry i was busy in the morning.

@Steven, I have few hours to read and check my opinion on Moody

About Math's tone, I don't like it, he looks like he is in a hurry to push me and wants to attract the others in this push. He is completely disregarding my claim and he wants details after i said details may help the wolves.
I think someone who don't want to reevaluate has big scum equity.

Do you think a full claim is necessary from me?

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

Sabrar posted reads and maybe rereading them may be useful

bessie: asks good questions and interacts with multiple players but that is standard for her and therefore NAI (maybe she would earn half a point on moody's scale, I don't know). However early aggression (or snarkyness or whatever you want to call it) is in my opinion more often coming from town as scum generally wants to avoid getting into fights before knowing the mood of the room. If scum!bessie wanted to replicate this to conform to her meta as a tunneler then I think she would have directed it at a target different from Wisp because she knows he will push back. Because of this I have a town-lean on her.

That's a sample for a flipped villager

Madge: I haven't played with Madge for a very long time because we usually just mod the Halloween game. Her being very independent is nothing new but I don't remember her being so aggressive about it. Her only relevant content is +/- points based on gut check where she already forgot the reason for some of those. I don't think that's enough to make a read.
@Madge: Could you explain what the other reasons for giving me minuses were that weren't negated? Clearly you haven't forgotten those.

Madge was questioned by Sabrar, looks good for her

MathBlade: I like his push on Suzaku even if I think the premise was false. I don't like this post:

Hmmm I don’t like the Bessie wagon given it seems to rely on Suzaku scum and Suzaku isn’t flipped so we don’t know if the premise is true.

1. I didn't get the impression that the wagon on bessie relied on scum!Suzaku
2. But if it really did then he should be comfortable with the wagon given that he is voting Suzaku already so from his pov the premise is likely to be true.
This overall feels like backtracking to me. If MathBlade ever flips scum we should take a closer look at bessie because this could be an early defense of a scummate.
I don't like the 'thought experiment'. If you felt the need to correct yourself about noone voting Suzaku, why did you leave in the hyperbole of everyone townreading you?
These items ping me to a degree where I have a scum-lean on MathBlade.

I have to think at the way he treated Math. He gave a scum lean on Math but his vote went on Jedi
The bolded pings me, saying this may be TMI, early distancing and a future push on Bessie at a possible flip

moody: when I read along Halloween I've liked moody's content even though I knew he was scum. I agree with Wisp that he is giving off similar vibes here, with the addendum that he seems to have more filler content here (possibly because of 'culture clash'). There is nothing so far that strikes me as particularly townie, so mild scum-lean for now.

This is pocketing Wisp and is slightly pushing Moody
Noted there is not 'if he flips scum'

Morgan: I like that he is showing progression of his reads. Not a fan of his case of bessie because it (understandably) does not take into account her meta. I don't like how he's only interacting (or giving reads) with a few players. I like his stance on lurkers even though I disagree with it. Overall probably a small town-lean.

Treatment for flipped town, pockety

Welcome Seven!

So ideally these next few players should have posted more...

patzer: nothing to report here, a single post with 'content' but it only contains a neutral read and some 'more later'-s. At least she's aware that she should be contributing more, but this is still lurking.

Shade for lurking. I presume she was only afk

SuperJedi: first 4 posts have no content. 5th is terrible as already expressed by others. 6th at least has some opinions and there is a vote (and a t-s list after prodding) but we do not know any of the reasons behind. There seems to be no motivation to interact or drive the game forward. Active lurker and scum-lean.

Scum lean for Jedi without 'if he flips scum'

Suzaku: I have no issues with his recap/read-list, that's a personal preference that a few players like to do. His explanation to Wisp looks natural. Unfortunately he hasn't posted ever since, can't even call him a lurker at this point. On the townier side of neutral if I'm forced to choose.

Flipped scum buddy is neutral towny. Noted

the worst: they are jumping around with their notes without any explanation, which I feel is coming from town more often then not as scum is usually self-aware of needing to provide justifications. I like their questions to others though they don't seem to have any follow-ups. Overall impression is good but they might be trying to replicate a known townie-meta.

This is interesting and lets room for a future push. I think it looks good for the worst

@Wisp, MathBlade: what are your takes on the worst?

Also here would be odd from him to ask only townies, because he would deal with different oppinions, while if he was asking a tonwie and a buddy he would have help in pushing a narative. Probability to ask about a scum buddy is slim i guess.
Though, I don’t know playstyle..

wam: I believe there was only a single game ever when I've read wam correctly, to disastrous results (WoT3). His content is subdued which actually makes me think he's town as he usually puts in more effort as scum.

@wam: why did you answer a question that was not addressed to you?

About wam again i think is pocket-y

Wisp: I'm seeing townie aggression and confidence, contemplating avenues that scum would less likely to do. His confusion wrt moody in Halloween seems genuine and would indicate that he really re-read the game with the purpose of solving moody. Although some posts ping me as possible power wolfing but in general I have a town-lean on him.

@Sabrar
I think Worst is fine right now, nothing has pinged me, I wouldn't vote him off as it stands, but as for a read, I don't really think I need to force one, so we can leave at, I don't think he is a good vote day 1

Thanks for the input!

@Seven: how is Wisp obv!scum? Enlighten me please.

Another post for a townie, letting a possibility for him to be scum, to make a push if the thread's flow goes in that direction

I noticed a typo but is in the middle of the post :shrug

I don't know why Seven is missing, probably he talked about him in other post, but the question makes me think scum doesn't ruin each other's narrative so if Seven would be his buddy that question about Wisp would be different.

Tl;dr Sabrar's reads are looking good for Moody Wam and the worst and bad for Math

I wish opinions from everyone becaus my conclusion is rather general and i know nothing about Sabrar's playstyle

[moody7277]

This particular avenue of analysis intrigues me because of how orthogonal it is to most of the other types of analysis I'm used to. It does end up where we were already with MB as a likely elim candidate, but I appreciate the effort. I may be a little more charitable about it since the analysis makes me look townier.

Sabrar's playstyle has always been verbose regardless of alignment. I don't recall having a great record on guessing whether he's scum.

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

This particular avenue of analysis intrigues me because of how orthogonal it is to most of the other types of analysis I'm used to. It does end up where we were already with MB as a likely elim candidate, but I appreciate the effort. I may be a little more charitable about it since the analysis makes me look townier.

Sabrar's playstyle has always been verbose regardless of alignment. I don't recall having a great record on guessing whether he's scum.

I am interested in the way he usually threats his scum mates vs townies în this kind of reads

This kind of analising flipped scum reads posts helped me and is a thing i am doing often, but is not a perfect science so I need other eyes to look at it and express thoughts

I wish to check how the wagon on Jedi was built, but is late for me (10 pm) and I can't focus at this.
And i have to see how others reacted at Sabrar's reads
This will happen in approx 8 hours

[MathBlade]

32 hours and the thread is dead....

Thread is dead because people are voting me because they don’t like my play, not that they think I am scum. Was AFK taking care of my mom and will be afk with work/nap.

WMU+Seven last reads. Good luck.

WMU scum claimed by not announcing targets because he’s not a doctor

[Seven]

Do you think a full claim is necessary from me?

I think only if, in addition to Wam, Madge/the worst still want it.

This is the most recent scum game I recall of Sabrar. The scum team was Xivii/Sabrar/Bessie/Fonti(replaced Z25). I'll have to look later for a more thorough read list from him that game to see if the ''if-then'' pattern shows up, I just know that he had a sold town read on each of us throughout. Also something I just remembered about Sabrar is that he won't bus. He'll vote his scummates for distance but he'll never be on their elimination wagon at EoD. So +++ for Jedi.

[Seven]

@Madge why did you investigate bessie N1 if she led the Sabrar wagon?

[the worst]

Can we have that convo tmo Seven?
Let's kill moody for now.
Still think WMU is scum honestly lol

Mathblade will flip before endgame. He functions as a cop. Scum need him dead to avoid being PoE'd, unless he is the last scum solo. Every remaining person who could be scum is voting him. Like this is some properly obvious "let him get a N3 clear then set him on fire tomorrow if needed" shit.

I'm even counting madge as a possible scum suspect here despite having townbinned her the entire game.

but whatever go off y'all if we lose this game because our PoE was one person too large, you can buy me flowers post game. x

[Seven]

Can we have that convo tmo Seven?
Let's kill moody for now.
Still think WMU is scum honestly lol

Mathblade will flip before endgame. He functions as a cop. Scum need him dead to avoid being PoE'd, unless he is the last scum solo. Every remaining person who could be scum is voting him. Like this is some properly obvious "let him get a N3 clear then set him on fire tomorrow if needed" shit.

I'm even counting madge as a possible scum suspect here despite having townbinned her the entire game.

but whatever go off y'all if we lose this game because our PoE was one person too large, you can buy me flowers post game. x

Madge is honestly the only alternative to me, which is like crazy if this is her scum game. It's honestly bananas to me that anyone is scumreading WMU.

[Seven]

I'm still re reading but I have now confirmed I have a 1 shot day vig. I'm going to use it in 7 hours (24 hours before deadline) on whoever is leading the votes effectively giving us 2 elims today.

Alright, Marklin's slot was one I was already meh about, so let's do that.

Vote: Marklin

Vote: Marklin

I'm still re reading but I have now confirmed I have a 1 shot day vig. I'm going to use it in 7 hours (24 hours before deadline) on whoever is leading the votes effectively giving us 2 elims today.

unvote

Marklin please. That slot has like no content.

Sheeping Seven for now

Vote Marklin

@Wam, Wisp, who is conftown and dead, basically said D1 that vig shots should be used for people like jedi who are scummy so distracting for town to have around (since scum won't kill them), rather than wasting an elim on them. especially because you know yourself to be 100% town, so leaving it up to majority vote is risky as it means there's going to be scum on a wagon trying to manipulate it. by all means, look at the votes for info, but make the final decision for yourself. i won't think you scummy for it, and I doubt anyone else would either, unless you did something off the wall like shooting bessie who seems to somehow be universally townread this game

I am not sure where this Marklin wagon came from. I'd honestly forgotten they were playing, which tbh is a problem as scum can tend to slide by.

wisp never really mentioned suzaku and bessie has them in the midle, but probably because they're forgettable.

i think they'll be a fine target but i am really annoyed at jedi for being so quiet all the time, if they're scum they're active lurking and if they're town they're not helping us. i do *not* want to be choosing between scummy town!jedi and townie scum in endgame

vote: Jedi

Hmmmmmm.

Vote: Madge

[Seven]

Wow, that was kind of like right in front of us wasn't it.

@MB care to join me? And then bow down before me if I was right about Madge's reaction to my fake claim.

[Seven]

She tries to make up for it and gain townie points later by prodding Wam to shoot (during his afk hours):

@wam town has spoken, can u shoot marklin for us? i'd still prefer jedi be shot as he's a distraction who i don't think would be yeeted before endgame at this rate for some reason, but if we have a lot of dayvigs maybe tomorrow can be the time for me to make that case

unvote

i now think that if marklin is scum, scum were given fake claims in addition to their scummy roles, and this fruit bulldust is the result

this is also why sabrar didn't claim because he saw the writing on the wall and didn't want to out that fake claims exist for his scummates by doing the fake claim? idk it made more sense in my head (or maybe he just knew it would be a terrible claim idk)

come on wam! it looks like this game does instaflips and i need that gratification

@WAM WAKE UP WE HAVE OUR TARGET SORTED

While still trying to give Marklin an out in the interim:

i would totally hammer you out of rage if we didn't have a dayvig in the wings who'd do it for me and give us another bite of the apple.

if you're town you're monumentally bone-headed to have not realised that. it's like OBVIOUS. a real townie would think "HOW DO I USE MY POWER FOR TOWN" even when it seems useless and yours is SO OBVIOUS

either you're scum with a fake claim or town.

the only way i'll be happy for you to survive overnight and prove your vegetable thing isn't fake would be if you can point to suzaku talking about veggies in one of his posts

well, that would be easy enough to prove tomorrow? your target can confirm they got a vegetable

does proving it mean much? idk, probably not, if massclaims aren't meant to help us

(btw my brain is back to mafia brain! however i am seeing dune tonight and then will be asleep over deadline so i'm basically not going ot be around for the last 12 hours of the day)

I also agree with what MB said about this post:

also marklin's claim is fake so it's not a real quote so the mod isn't going to eliminate him for us even if that's against the rules which someone said they checked the rules and they didn't see anything about quotes so....?

@All this is where I'm setting my vote for the day and am ready to hammer when everyone else is. If pretty sure this is it. It has that solvey feel I wasn't feeling for MB. Also MB and Moody were the first on the Marklin train after Wam's announcement. And WMU again coupled to another player to create a pseudo-double vote and essentially hammering Marklin. Like c'mon now, ya'll really think she did this twice to her scummates?

Madge/Worst should full claim at L-1 since lovers.

[Seven]

EBWOP:

She tries to make up for it [her attempt to dissuade Wam from shooting Marlkin] and gain townie points later by prodding Wam to shoot (during his afk hours)

If I'm pretty sure this is it.

[xX_WakeMeUp1337_Xx]

If it's Madge that's an impressive scum game

If it's MB the same

This makes me admire you very much, i am so glad i can play with you ^^

Like usual, my vote belongs to Seven but except blind sheeping i have these reasons:
The worst willing to die as lover by suspecting Madge is towny
MBs last Poe list has an amount of paranoia i like. This can be fake-able as scum, but I want to trust my first feeling I had reading his post.
Logic says i would claim targets immediatly if i were scum, because not saying anuthing doesn’t help and my thread presence is not strong enough to be trusted when I stubornly reffuse to claim.

I don't think is Seven, scum never has the reason to defend one single player several days like that.

Vote Madge

[the worst]

We're not doing madge. Lol.

[madge]

I daisy chained to the worst because I wanted to know I could 100% trust him given Wisp's flip made bessie 100% town to me. It was selfish but I decided that mafia is fun and I wouldn't have fun if I had to lim from worst and seven who would have been my other target.

okay and wow, three votes?

fullclaim:

I'm integral

I target two people at night, if they're the same alignment I get a message confirming it, if they're different alignments they each get a message with my "role type" (which would be "madge is investigative" or something along those lines).

N1 as above I compared bessie and wisp because they were strong townreads (more info below). they were the same alignment. you can see I treat living!bessie exactly the same as I treat dead!conftown!wisp. i was not subtle in my breadcrumb.

N2 i compared bessie and the worst because I was worried we have an indie (worst claims we don't) and I was worried that if I had a neighbour i couldn't 100% trust then I wouldn't have fun because i wouldn't be able to let my guard down in the chat / claim / etc. yes this was selfish but given we became lover i'm REALLY glad i did it

and both nights i was told they were the same alignment, obviously. worst has since told me that there's no 3p in the game per his power so assuming there's only one scum left i'm a de facto cop.

@Madge why did you investigate bessie N1 if she led the Sabrar wagon?

I investigated my two strongest townreads because if one of them was scum it would be fatal to my game, I tend to sheep people I trust and I figured if I could trust both of them I'd be in a great position. I had planned to target strong townreads the whole game for that reason, and because i didn't want scum to be PMed knowing i was investigative, and finally because scum tend to kill strong townreads and I was hoping to be able to get conftown ASAP rather than being paranoid that e.g. wisp-bessie was the scumteam.

I don't really have anything to say about how I interacted with Marklin; if old games were easily accessible you'd see I'm always looking into backup plans and power proving and power interactions and such. Once he came up with that ridiculous story attached to the second claim there was no way he could possibly be town as none of it made the most remote bit of sense so that's why you see me change.

it looks like all the quotes of me condemning marklin are after the second claim and all the quotes of me trying to "see if there's an out" as you imply are:

- asking him for a breadcrumb to prove the vegetable claim isn't fake

- asking him to prove he has the power he claims (which i can't have asked him for after he redacted his claim)

I'm sure this isn't going to change your or anyone's mind, it's clearly made up, but I'm not going to let two townies die without defending myself lol. Either way I think this game is solved and it's just a matter of time before we find the last scum, though I'm worried about a strongman or similar and don't like the idea of losing two townies (not just because one of them is me).